Is it good or bad to post a critique that essentially says, "I couldn't read it"?

I'm relatively new to this forum (four months or so), and have done what I could to provide decent feedback on the pieces I've read here, even when I thought the piece was severely amateurish (I'm no pro, either). But some pieces are so bad that I can't get past the first four lines or so. I don't want to write a scathing review and throw a wet blanket on someone's ambitions, but part of me wonders if people need to hear this sort of feedback.

There's another thread here where the OP was lamenting that people were too busy correcting his (?) grammar to tell him whether or not the story was readable. People piled on and told him he was out of line for saying such a thing, and their time to correct grammar was worthy, and he should be thankful. I agree with them, but as far down the thread as I read (it was pages long, and I didn't expect a change in theme), no one had said, "I disagree with your premise, but agree that aspects beyond grammar are valuable to give feedback on as well." One of the big bits of feedback I look for in my writing is whether or not anyone cares about my characters, my settings, or the story in general. I, however, greatly appreciate grammar catchers, because I consider myself to be pretty good at it and REALLY appreciate it when people catch me out. More than grammar is readability of sentences; too long, too short, too boring, full of gerunds...

But I'm deviating from my own original question. Is it good or bad to say, "I couldn't get past the first few lines and stopped reading all together"?

 

I don't think what you want to say is going to be very helpful and I don't think it's necessary. Unless you actually read the thing that's posted I don't think you should comment. If you do want to comment, get passed the first few lines. We can make ourselves read anything. And there is always something good in there somewhere I bet. Editors and agents read the first few lines and judge a piece on that, usually sending a basic form letter. What you are thinking of posting is the equivalent of a form letter. Form rejections suck and no one likes getting them. So, if you're reading someone's work and want to help them or offer feedback, you really should read it through before making quick judgements. Beginnings can be really hard. And maybe the biggest or only real problem is the beginning. I wouldn't comment on something I decided wasn't worth my time to read. That's not really fair to the author.

 

Well, this sort of relates to your question, though it's less extreme than "I couldn't read it": When the grammar is bad enough, the rest is irrelevant.

I'm inclined to say it's not useful. If you couldn't get past the first few lines, there must be some reason--grammar, purple prose, incoherent concepts, incoherent sentences, not sentences at all. So I'd say either don't review, or review those first few lines, and perhaps indicate that the rest of the piece has similar problems.

 

The key point is right there, you aren't writing a review, you're writing a critique. This came up in another current thread somewhere or other. Generally, if I think something is a total mess, I'll just move on, but another option is to pick out why you can't read it. If it's SPAG, there's often a repeating error or series of errors that you could, if you felt inclined, identify and offer suggestions for correction in the first few instances, then just skim and bold/highlight where they occur again. For example, I did a beta-read on a piece whose author had difficulty with dialogue tags which made it difficult for me to read. I'll peck out an example of the sort of thing that they were doing, and then show how I dealt with it.

I was fortunate in that the writer, while wrong, was consistent in their error, so I sent back a copy that looked something like this:

Once you've identified a problem and shown how to fix it, you can simply zip through the text and keep pointing it out.

Another thing to remember is that you don't need to help with every issue a person has. I teach English for a living, so I feel quite confident in offering critique on language usage and tend to focus my critiques on that, leaving things like character development and pacing advice to people whose skills lie in those areas. You haven't "failed" in a critique if someone else comes along and points out other problems or makes other suggestions, even if they disagree with you.

 

That's a thoughtful question to ask. If somebody says "I just couldn't read it," I suspect that the writer will think ...well why should I pay attention? You didn't read it. I agree with @deadrats, that you should at least attempt (wholeheartedly) to read the whole thing. Not just abandon ship at the first sign of trouble.

I do maintain that, as a critique-giver, you must come up with reasons behind what you say in the critique. If you say "I couldn't read it," you need to be prepared to say why. In detail, if possible.

Like @ChickenFreak points out, the grammar issue CAN be so overwhelming that it seems a waste of time to pick through the piece and find anything else. If it's grammar that stops you from reading, be prepared to suggest specific improvements (as @Iain Aschendale points out.)

If it's the punctuation that's the problem (badly set-up dialogue, comma splices, etc) see if you can direct the writer to a site that will help them learn the correct way to punctuate these instances. I believe good punctuation is learned a bit at a time, and if the writer can be aimed specifically at issues that plague the piece you're reading, all the better. Ditto other SPAG issues. Once a writer knows how to correct an error—and to recognise it in the first place—they'll move on and won't make those mistakes again.

I have seen writers on the forum dismiss grammar corrections in their Workshop feedback as 'irrelevant,' however. These authors are in denial. They want you to talk about what you 'really think of their characters, etc.' Ignoring the fact that the writing is so incoherent you can't figure out what the characters are doing, saying, etc. Insisting grammar doesn't really matter is the writer's version of 'la la la la la la la.' If a critique-giver concentrates on character development instead of the form, they might reinforce the writer's notion that form doesn't really matter. (You figured out what I meant, so it must be okay.) It's a balancing act for the critique giver. However, it's also the responsibility of the writer to consider ALL of what gets said, not just to dismiss the problems they're not happy to tackle.

If you can't come up with something helpful to say about a Workshop offering, then yeah. Just move on to another piece without comment. You can't critique everything that appears here, anyway. Concentrate your efforts on the pieces that attract you—the ones where you can articulate both strengths and weaknesses, and give advice on how to solve problems.

 

I would find it useful. Whenever I send a manuscript for beta reading I always reassure the reader that I won't be butthurt if they don't like it, but I would really appreciate knowing when they stopped reading and why. I'm trying to sell my writing, and readers aren't going to carry on out of the goodness of their hearts if something turns them off in the first paragraph.

It's all in the way you say it. "This is terrible and you will never be a writer!" = no. "I think you need to work on the basics of punctuation before critiques can move on to the higher-level plot and character questions. It's hard to concentrate on the story when I have to work to understand the individual sentences. Eats, Shoots and Leaves or GrammarGirl.com are good resources" = yeah, I think that's perfectly valid critique.

 

All great feedback, thank you.

 

Sometimes a critique of the first few lines of an opening chapter can be very helpful.
Not only does it give you an indication of why the opening might not hook a reader,
it also highlights potential bad habits that are bound to be present in the rest of the text.

Just a simple 'That sentence is clunky because it's loaded with too many adjectives' can help
certain writers. Now that you're aware of a potential flaw in your style you can then go through
the rest of the MS and expunge the flab.

 

Usually I don't comment on something that I find unreadable, unless I can point out specific incidents where the writing is getting in the way of reader appreciation.

But if you do contribute this sort of criticism, you should let the writer know where you're coming from ... whether it's the genre itself that you don't find engaging, or whether it's pushing buttons that others might not have. (Most rape survivors would find a description of a rape to be too unsettling to read, for instance, no matter how artistic or grammatically correct it may be.)

It is legitimate to ask a writer on this forum what he or she is trying to achieve in the piece ... what effect is intended, what emotions are being elicited. Sometimes the writers themselves are a bit hazy on that, and the criticism helps them figure out what isn't working in the piece. After all, we are all here to improve our writing skills, and to help each other along that path. Simply saying "This is garbage" isn't going to help the writer. It's the old law of criticism: "If you're commenting on a problem, suggest a solution to the problem."

 

I wouldn't tell someone their work is garbage. That would be not only rude, but unhelpful. If, however, the first few sentences of a story are so jumbled, incoherent, or fraught with grammar errors that I can't see myself continuing without enduring a headache, I wonder if I should just skip to the end and post something that says, "I struggled with your first few sentences and found myself unable to continue. Problems I see include a host of spelling errors, complete lack of punctuation, incorrect word usage, and sentence fragments. And that was all in the first two lines. I admit that I didn't read any further, but I encourage you to re-read your own work, fix the issues, then re-post." Or I could just go on to the next post and ignore the bad writing like everyone else seems to do. If you search any of the Workshop forums for posts with zero responses, you'll find several posts like these.

 

If you don't say why it's unreadable it's not helpful.

 

The thing about grammar is, people who are bad at it struggle to get to grips with it. They are making mistakes without realising the mistakes. If you tell them to go fix their grammar, they usually don't have a clue how to start.

If you can take the first few paragraphs and pinpoint which grammatical mistakes they are making there, then show them how to correct a few of them, then I think you'll have been helpful. You can rewrite the portion, correcting only the grammar. And maybe link them to a site that deals with those particular issues. Once they understand the issue and can recognise the mistake, they are unlikely to continue to make this mistake. Then they can move on.

I wouldn't attempt to go through the entire piece with the 'red pen,' though. That would just be horrendously discouraging. But if you can get them started, that would be a big help. I do think it's okay to say you struggled to read the piece all the way through because of the grammatical issues. They do need to understand that the bad grammar is a major barrier to them becoming a writer. A writer whom people will want to read.

 

Everyone can write. Some people can write decently. A tiny number of people can write well enough to get work published.

No one who can't get basic grammar down is ever going to end up in the group of published writers. Not because their grammar is bad, but because their bad grammar is indicative of an insurmountable lack of ability in crafting words that they will never produce something economically valuable. If you're being told your basic skills aren't there, give up on being a professional writer.

But people can also write for themselves and their peers, and that writing can progressively improve with effort. The problem is that critique assumes a basic competence that can then be commented on compared to a standard. But we don't have a standard for amateurish works like we do for visual art (folk art). There really are no forms of popular writing that are truly primitive. Published children's books, comics, etc are all sophisticated within the bounds of their genre.

I don't know how you tell someone that they have written a turd, or how one advises the owner of a turd to improve it into a superior turd. Every patient effort I've witnessed only results in disbelief by the author - who is so out of touch with reality in the first place that they thought they had written something of merit.


So it is an "unwinnable" battle, and people who value their time should probably keep their comments very short or simply not post. There is no positive message to be conveyed because it will never be accepted as valid.

 

Your good points aside, I would suggest 'Creative Writing' is comparable to 'folk art,' or outsider art.

 

Y'know, as with ALL things ever - my comprehensive grasp of 'Outsider Art' is limited to the French postman with his rock palace, the Swiss asylum lunatic crafting in toothbrush, and Edward Darger's terrifying childscapes...

- Which to my mind are comparable stereotypes to the:

1. opera at home, world-building cellar man.
2. my book, my passion, my published.

..interesting narratives in their own right. And so many fascinating variations. They should be published and put in a...oh, oh...critical crack in theorem.

 

Some of my crits don't make sense when I read them back a month later. 3 occasions now I didn't understand a word. I must have been really immersed, a very sympathetic critic.

 

I think its fine to go with that line, "I" implies the subject only to him/her.
So its personal view. Having different view is plausible.
Its up to the writer (object of the critique) to take it personally or as an input for different views of personality and subject for that matter.
Having grammar error or typo is fine to a certain degree for non professional. We dont have editor for that purpose.
I didn't see it as big deal though it is maybe for some Nazies
I do check my grammar, spelling, and read my writing 1st before given it for public consumption though.

*edited I have grammar error nyahahaha

 

There are things I have written, in so much as I was able, that many people had told me weren’t really good enough for them to have gotten through, and it hurt to hear it at the time but I really just needed to learn how to say what I wanted to say without getting in my own way, as it is true that sometimes the things I write are only sort of incorrect due to SPAG, but nonetheless people find them irritating and difficult to read, so for an example I might have a character like Glishcamnorach who says, “the founders came forth and said unto me, ‘conquer this land,’ and so I did,” but after I was told it was too long and wordy, and that maybe my characters all had really annoying names, I changed it to something that may just be a little bit more modern.

 

SPAG can be an issue, but I feel like word choice and sentence structure are usually what's keeping readers from digging in.

Being scared / nervous that your meaning isn’t clear, overly confident after the first draft because you’re a normal beginner, and feeling inspired / artistic and indulging in purple prose... usually all at the same time, can make the prose too wordy for most people to want to read.

Those stories need an editor to go through with red marker and start hatcheting it to help the writer learn how to pick their words, IMO.

And it hurts to see it done, and it’s irritating to see it done by another beginner with questionable taste, but sometimes it's the best you can get for free.

 

When I go to read a piece of fiction I want to be entertained. If what I've written for other people to consume is not entertaing, I want to know that. It's just one person's opinion. It's not carved in stone, and what does a stone Mason know about fiction anyway?

 

You know, I think this is really the heart of the issue. Bad writing (mistakes aside) is not interesting or entertaining. And that is probably the nicest way to tell someone that something they wrote is terrible - to simply say "Your piece does not hold my attention and is not entertaining."

If they want more details about why, then they'll get a more pointed critique that isn't about good or bad as much about whether anyone can connect to what they've written.

 

I usually skip critiquing a piece that I can't give some kind of constructive suggestions about. But I may start with something like, "apart from the spelling and grammatical errors, which are show-stoppers, you might want to begin with a problem for your character to deal with, instead of describing her business-as usual. Don't begin her waking up, taking a shower, preparing breakfast, and so on..."

This way, I do give a nod to the fundamentals that need to be addressed first, but also offer something beyond the obvious. Even if the critique never gets past the first paragraph, I'm attempting to offer something of substance without whitewashing the fact that the mechanical aspects of writing have to be learned and applied.

 

If you have the stomach for it, post it. I used to do that when I bothered trying to critique. Sadly, it didn’t make me popular and got some writers super bitchy, which just made me bitchy back. I mean, reading those 4 lines and writing a reply to let them know something isn’t working for me took minutes of my life! And then it took minutes more to reply to their defensive reply.

Come to think of it, don’t post it.

Save yourself the aggravation of being honest, especially if you have limited time. Spend that time on you or meeting potential readers who will be more than happy to critique your work should you need it. I’ve learnt it isn’t worth my time to read the work of strangers, too busy and it’s too much work to tiptoe around unknown egos and sensitive souls who aren’t ready to hear negative feedback.

Keep it fluffy and nice, that’s the bulk of internet responses. A little empty, yes. But it’s a more peaceful existence.