Setup: I'm terrible at names, and I also like to have meanings to the names of my things (preference, not a requirement). So I've decided to be a bit lazy with naming the places in my stories. You see, I have only have three major places in my story, but they have quite boring names: Wild Island, Sun Kingdom, and Magisen. Now, with exception to the last one (which I think is pretty okay), I've decided to translate the first to into Finnish. This changes those two boring names into cool ones! Wild Island turns into Villi Saari and Sun Kingdom into Aurinko Kingdom (I didn't change the kingdom because "Sun" is the royal family's name). I'm not sure if this is a good idea for whatever reason, but I enjoy it. The Point: Am I being too lazy with just changes English names into a different language because they sound cooler, or am I just overthinking this whole thing? Is there a better way to go about making better names from scratch? Update: Thanks for the feedback. Update the Second: I've read the comments and I've decided to not use translated words when writing this. I've decided that if I need to rely on translating words when I can't make ones that are interesting, then I need to focus on working my creative muscles. So, instead of translating the words to another language, I'll work on making names that are actually good and clever and not fall back on using a technique that I, personally, see as lazy. Thank you all for the feedback.
It sounds fine to me. Before you call the book totally done, you might want to grab someone for which Finnish is their native language and make sure you didn't assemble some non-obvious funny or offensive phrase, but otherwise, yeah? Why not?
I have done similar to a short where Dark Eldar exist in modern day. It really helps to not have to follow any of the lore, and most likely the reader won't notice that by changing the name from English to Arabic I don't feel the need to worry about sticking to traditional elements of them. Also it kinda sounds neat in another language.
Can't say that comes across as lazy. At least you're making an effort to change it from something boring or banal. I do the exact same thing. Google Translate is a god-send. I'll also twist the translations into something slightly different so it's not just another word in a different language. Ex: I have a WIP that features a race of beings that have the ability to change their looks at will, much like a chameleon does. The Latin base for chameleon is "talpa" so I built the race off of that, calling them Tallpians.
Doesn't sound at all lazy to me, I use Finnish names in my current sci-fi project. What you've done looks perfectly ok to me. Actually it looks good, rather than just 'ok'. I use scrivener which has a pretty decent name generator in it, I choose 'Finnish' then pick a first name and last name name from the list - that's lazy.
Why Finnish? Is there any significance to that? Any other references to the language or culture or anything? It seems not so much lazy as inexplicable, to me. They only sound cool if you don't know Finnish -- if you do, it's the same 'boring' names. I'm all for drawing inspiration from other languages, but I wouldn't use one outright unless there was a reason, and it made sense for these names to be in Finnish.
Finnish just felt better when I said the words than some of the other languages. I mean, the reason for using a different language in the first place because "Wild Island" sounds infinitely dull in my head, so at least there's a reason. If one were to know Finnish... I'm sorry but that seems like a completely negligible point. Not to bash you, I'm glad you took the time to air (err?) your criticisms, but I don't think "someone might speak this" (or any other variation of the "there might be someone" argument, for that matter) isn't one I'll be entertaining soon. I appreciate the input though.
Why is it negligible? It's not like Finnish is some obscure dying language with half a dozen speakers remaining, lol. Something about this leaves a bad taste in my mouth, lifting words straight from a language you don't speak just because they sounded cool to you. From another angle entirely, Finnish is a rather cliché choice when it comes to real-world inspiration for constructed languages. It's been done, in fantasy, a lot.
I didn't say that it was negligible because Finnish was a dying language, because that's just not true. I said it was negligible because it's a stupid reason not to do something, in my opinion. Yeah, I guess that it sounds kind of harsh, but I'm kind of jaded to the argument because I hear it thrown around so much in other places and I guess I'm just kind of done hearing it. I just don't think that "someone might not appreciate this as much as others" or "someone might not like this" is not a valid reason not to do something.
Okay. This a %100 fantasy setting? IE, Finland doesn't exist here? So -- just worldbuilding wise -- how do this island and this kingdom have Finnish names? Where did Finnish come from, in this setting? Are other things named in Finnish? Does other stuff have German names, or Italian names? Where did any of these real-world Earth-based languages come from, whether it's one or a dozen, in this fantasy setting with no Finland, Germany, or Italy? It's not like using a vaguely Germanic or Romantic sounding language -- it is literal Finnish (I bring up a hypothetical Finnish/Finnish-literate reader only because they would notice it immediately). How'd it get there? Well, that's not remotely what I'm saying. I'm questioning why Finnish exists in this fantasy setting, because to me that's some anachronistic shit. If you're immediately done with hearing people's opinions, why'd you ask the question? edit: For context, where I'm coming from with this is considering that I know a little German, if in a fantasy novel I see something named Schwarz Island, I don't think "Oh, that sounds cool" -- I think "Oh, that's just Black Island. You've just named this place Black Island except in German, for no reason, in this setting where German doesn't otherwise exist. That's dumb." It's pointless. I've talked myself into it, actually. I do think it's lazy. Is it okay to be a bit lazy? Well, I wouldn't, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to argue some rando out of it.
Well Izzy hopefully won't find my Sci-Fi character from Siberia, and speaks the language to be too out of left field. (Cute little village, green rolling hills and it exists in both fiction and reality.)
From Siberia, which exists, and speaking a Siberian language which exists in the setting? Yup, this one checks out for me I think there's a lot more leeway in scifi. My far-future sf totally has names and terms derived from non-English languages -- 'cause those languages already exist in the setting. In second-world fantasy? Nah.
Yes. You're right here. I apologize for flying off of the handle there, that wasn't appropriate nor was it fair. None of the arguments on the thread related to what I started ranting about, so it wasn't proper nor was it fair of me to start ranting about it. So I apologize for my misconduct. The world is a fantasy setting, there is no Finland. I guess I just got fed up with my own lack of creativity in name creation and started looking at other languages for a solution. Half of my initial question was asking for advice on how to make good names, so I'm obviously lost in that department. Thank you for your time, and I assure you that, in the future, I'll be sure to properly respect others as I usually try to.
What I meant by drawing inspiration from other languages in my first post is basically mining them for phonemes. If you mash English-y sounds together you can get interesting stuff, but since you're familiar with English, you end up going "Well, this sounds too much like [different real English word]" a lot -- and theoretically selling to a majority English-literate audience, you have to be aware that that's what they're going to think, too, and possibly make associations based on it. You don't get to name a place Catte Island and not have folks wondering where all the kitties are. But if we find some non-(commonly)English phonemes that don't sound like English words put in a blender, we have more options. You've already found stuff you like the sound of. Just fool with it some. Vilsari Island and the Aurelko Kingdom.
Well, as our resident Finns, I'd ask @KaTrian and @T.Trian to see if they might find the names accidentally hilarious. But if they were direct translations and there's actually a reason why you want the meanings "wild" and "sun" in the names, it's probably fine. From Dune, I still remember there were Duke Leto and definitely a guy called Tyden. Both of them exist in Czech (no idea if the author was intentional about this - likely not), the first meaning "summer" and the second "week". There was also once I and my co-author needed to give this character a surname, and then I got the spelling of the suggested name wrong and we ended up called him Cipher Zavin. Unfortunately, zavin means strudel, also in Czech But since your meanings are not accidental like the above, I think you should be fine.
Why not simply fall on to the keyboard? Whatever impression is left behind becomes your romantic lead, and do it a second time for the capital city? Like this Edjkl;gf dcvl; ,.afJK Actually - doesn't work so well with the face, but you see I have produced two workable characters in draft. That's what creatives do, one of our things.
Sounds cool! Saying this as a Finn. And I don’t really care if Finland doesn’t exist in your fantasy world. Neither does the UK or France but since you have to write the story in a language that’s been heavily molded by Anglo-Saxon and French vocabulary and grammar for your readers to understand it, I’m sure other concessions can be made as well. Was Andrzej Sapkowski lazy cos he used some non-Polish names and words in his Witcher books? I don’t think so. They give a story a unique flavor. (ETA: I can’t vouch for the translations though. Maybe everything was all Polish). Though apparently Finnish has already become a cliché in fantasy lit? I didn’t know that. Like, Elvish isn’t Finnish if people were thinking about LotR. I’d be interested in reading the novels where it’s been used before. Pretty cool!
I actually think what you're doing by translating the names into another language is pretty cool. I don't know Finnish, but even if I did and recognized the words, I would still think what you had done was clever, not lazy. I've only done something similar once in a short story, and it really worked and I sold the story. In my case, I literally named a character after what he was doing in the story. No one who doesn't know the language is going to think it's more than a name. And those who do recognize the words could like what you've done. I wouldn't scratch this idea. I think it's a good one.
My two cents is that lots of names in a language I'm unfamiliar with go in one ear and immediately out the other unless there is a very specific reason for me to know the place. Is it important to know the names of the places or just the places themselves? Honestly, the cooler a name sounds, the less it impacts me, I like names that are descriptive. I can't remember a single location's name from The Lord of the Rings, but I certainly remember "Lineland" and "Pointland" and "Flatland."
Neat! Where else has Finnish appeared? I remember in His Dark Materials, which took place in a sort of alternative universe, the author used some Finnish names, like one witch was called Kaisa and there were these monsters called Nalkainens (misspelled). Then there's Tolkien's Kullervo. Usually in fantasy I come across names that look like accidental Finnish (like in Two Pearls of Wisdom one character was called Ranne - 'a wrist'). I can't think of many books with words as blatantly and non-accidentally Finnish as aurinko or villi, but I'd love to read them. Personally, I think it's delightful to bump into familiar words (instead of boring) in non-Finnish literature. Maybe it's just me.
Keep in mind why places are named what they are. Typically, people don't just take random letters and poof out a name for a city. Things are named for convenience, so that they can be talked about or referred to. They're often named after people or nearby geography, or have some kind of cultural significance. Also, names will evolve over time. Sometimes nicknames stick so well that the original is forgotten, or longer names get slurred into shorter names after generations (for example, The Queen's Land --> Queensland --> Quenslund).
I feel the need to clarify, as someone who brazenly steals from real languages for my own conlangs all the time, that it's something really specific about this example that bothers me. It's that combination of choosing a language with no other significance, combined with taking the words straight as they are. This is totally arbitrary, but it's just where I'm coming from: Having a fantasy culture inspired partly or wholly by Finland, then using Finnish words? Cool. Thinking Finnish sounds awesome and creating a fantasy language inspired by it but changing things around a bit so it's not straight-up Finnish? Also cool. Taking straight-up Finnish words and sticking them onto a culture that has nothing to do with Finland? WEIRD. Like I said, I know it's arbitrary. I have Opinions about fantasy languages, okay?
