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  1. Rake

    Rake Member

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    constructing a chaptered novel

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Rake, Dec 29, 2022.

    Greetings,
    This has probably already been covered but the subject does not seem to be immediately obvious.
    I'm wondering if there isn't a better way of presenting a novel than what currently is being practiced. It seems to be reply driven rather that story driven.
    If an author could create a collection of chapters and present a current edit of each chapter at the top of relies it might make the presentation more reader friendly. You might also consider a radio button the author might use to identify if a reply has resulted in an update to the script. That way we might know if the author has addressed notes and suggestions.
     
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Not sure I quite understand exactly what you mean, but there's something you can do that's similar. Once you're no longer a New Member and have more than I think 2o posts (?) you'll get full editing privileges on every post you've made, and you'll be able to go in any time you want and edit old posts.

    Whenever you make a new post to a Workshop thread, you can edit the first post in that thread with a link directly to the new chapter or section. If you look at the bottom of the post there's some info over on the right hand side, starting with a little number with the # sign in front of it. If you click on that number, it opens that post in a new thread and you can grab the URL from the bar across the top of the page. That's a link directly to that particular post. You can then drop that link into your original post, and when somebody clicks it, whoosh! They're magically transported directly to that post.

    I've been doing it on my Workshop thread as an example: The Beast Seekers—New and Improved for late 2022!!

    Click on one of those underlined links and it'll take you right to the latest installment, skipping over all the dross in between. I can walk you through how to make the links too if you want.
     
  3. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Currently there aren't a lot of members posting novel length WIPs for feedback. Usually it's just a chapter or two if anything. So I don't know if revising these functions are really needed, but even if they were, they may need to wait until the site updates to a later version of xenforo forums (mods can verify this).

    There is another site (scribophile) that is actually more user friendly for what you are describing, with many users posting multiple chapters at a time to solicit feedback, and an algorithm to promote chapters that may not being getting a lot of views. But the ratio of users seeking feedback versus providing it may be different than here. Whether that's better for you or not, is a different question. I find the scribophile site a bit confusing, but manageable. But as I don't have anything novel length that I want to post 'publicly', I don't go there much.
     
  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    We do suffer from still being on XF1 so we don't have a lot of the usability options that XF2 would give us. That said I wouldn't generally encourage anyone to 'present' their entire novel in the workshop, the purpose of the workshop is to get feedback on pieces of writing and so improve your craft, it is not intended to be a replacement for line editing or beta reading an entire novel, nor is it a place where finished work should be presented.

    Theres also if seeking a trad deal the issue about first rights - we don't believe that being in the password protected workshop area would be considered to be published, but we cannot guarantee that every publisher will agree

    overall if you want crit on an entire novel it is preferable to use the collaboration area to find a beta reader or two

    That aside we are currently considering whether to change the rule about all chapters should be in one thread, as it might make more sense to have a new thread per chapter so all the feedback in a thread relates to one piece of work... the current rule came about because of a certain tiresome individual absolutely swamping the workshop with chapters or pieces to the point where no one else was getting a look in...it occurs to me that there is another resolution to that kind of narcissistic selfish behaviour, one including the application of a large shiny ban hammer to the offending account
     
  5. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    My advice? Don't do it. Interest will peter out very quickly. We've had many members try to post their entire novel chapter by chapter and feedback dries up in a hurry. They seem to think that everyone will be refreshing their browser every 5 minutes to see if the next chapter has been posted, but that never happens.

    And I don't think you've got much to gain from it anyway. You're much better off making friends and contacts and utilizing them for full beta reads. There's a collaboration section for that. And PMs obviously. The forum isn't really conceived to critique full length works a piece at a time. The members just aren't interested in that.
     
  6. ps102

    ps102 PureSnows102 Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    That rule never made sense to me from the 2-1 perspective. Members can write two critiques and then post eight different things in the same thread. I mean, it's unlikely to get much attention, but still...
     
  7. Rake

    Rake Member

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    All very good points. I agree with Homer that for the vast majority interest would peter out. Even published novels can struggle to hold a readers attention at times and would be put down if they weren't bought and paid for. A novel that did not have chapters ready, waiting and polished could very well struggle.
    Moose is also on the money
    However... the attraction of writing for me is in the process of building and creating. To put a piece up for critique can be an daunting action; as it should. There are plenty of critics that approach your work with sharpened pencils and glee. The process, the work, the creating is where the action is, good or bad. Right now Writers is a great forum for mechanics of writing and the appeal of substance. Very important and essential in refining your work and growing your craft. What I would suggest is to put the work at the forefront, presented as a collection of chapters with individual threads that had the chapter pinned to the top of the thread.
    Perhaps this isn't what publishers want and could result in novels written by committee. On the other hand perhaps it is a new way of presenting a story. If you've not checked it out https://www.worldanvil.com/ has an interesting format for constructing story even though it was designed for role playing games. It's not as geared for critics or interaction as it should be for novel writing, and it doesn't have the community. But it does have an exciting way to create, putting the work first.
    Anyhow I'm not wanting to kick Writingforum's tyres. I just found navigating several chapters a bit awkward and thought we might be missing a trick with larger ideas.
     
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    yeah - as i said we can't do any of that stuff on xf1- and with an owner who hasn't been seen since june we aren't going to upgrading any time soon. Also Word anvil charges for membership which is how they can afford developers and stuff which we can't.. and as you say its not for writing anyway, its for collaborative RPG which is very different.

    End of the day we're not looking to provide a publishing venue here, or one for people to write books together... the purpose of the workshop is critique to improve your writing skills
     
    Rake likes this.

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