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  1. JustYourAverageWriter

    JustYourAverageWriter New Member

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    Is this idea socially acceptable?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by JustYourAverageWriter, Oct 20, 2018.

    Okay, so in my story, the protagonist slaps the lover interest the first time they meet. He tried to kiss her against her will, so she slapped him. In relationships, neither party should intentionally cause harm to the other. This is before they are in a relationship. Is this considered okay?
     
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  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I think it depends to some extent on the culture and setting. However, it’s also a fairly cliched situation.

    I should note that I find the forced kiss more offensive than the slap.
     
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  3. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    Sadly due to the nature of politics and how sexuality is viewed today, nothing is "socially acceptable" anymore. I have literally had people tell me that a female character having a male child is "disrespectful" to women and "misogynistic"...I kid you not, it's some kind of movement called "antinatalist femnism", the idea is that the very act of conceiving a child is a kind of misogyny. Yes, seriously. My advice, divorce yourself as much as possible from any notion of political correctness...we sadly live in an era where human life is considered bigoted somehow, so make no attempt to conform to what is "acceptable" because, unfortunately, it changes moment to moment based on posts on Facebook.

    And honestly that's not a swipe at anyone's politics, I genuinely have had an argument where someone said a fanfic I wrote "promoted rape" and was misogynistic because a female character is mentioned off-hand as having had a son, at some point in the past. It's not even shown "onscreen" it's a minor point in a secondary character's backstory to explain why Marcus Fenix suddenly has a brother (original character don't steal!) and he shows up like twice before he's decapitated.
     
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  4. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Benevolent Ochlocrat Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Depends on when it's set. 40s film noir? That's the standard way to pick up a girl. 80s? Probably still acceptable. After 2000? No way, he'd be up on charges. There are a lot of things now that are arrestable offenses that our grandparents thought of as "courtship," and it's as much of a mistake, IMO, to project a full set of 21st century values* on a mid-20th century character as it is to have someone getting away with pinching a server's bottom in a modern setting.



    *That's not saying your 1940s character can't be a decent person, but it's unlikely that he'd have the all same attitudes towards women, minorities, same sex marriage, animal rights etc that are becoming the default in the modern world.
     
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  5. MusingWordsmith

    MusingWordsmith Lively Fred

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    @Ian Aschendale has a good point- think about the characters and what time period their living in and what the morals and standards of that day were. However, another thing to note for me.

    As you said, these characters are not in a relationship at the time. Holding them to a standard of behavior of people who are in a relationship is going to come out forced and awkward. Let the characters be people first, people who don't know each other but as they do, then they can start doing those things that people who know and care about each other do.
     
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  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Characters can do anything you want - there are successful, even popular characters who are mass murderers, and you're worried about a slap? I don't get it.

    Possibly you're worried about the narrative's attitude toward the slap? Like, you think you're writing it in a way that makes it seem as if violence is appropriate, or something like that?

    Otherwise I'm really not sure what you're getting at.
     
  7. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    There are certain..."factions" today which would literally consider this rape. Or sexual harassment or some combination thereof. To put this in perspective, I have seen news reports where they were debating if Prince Charming kissing Snow White "without her consent" was rape. You know the kiss that saved her from a COMA. So yes sadly this is the problem with "modern" sexual dynamics driven by feminism.
     
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  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Why is this needed in the story? Is there a point to it? Or are you just throwing it in there because... reasons?
     
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  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    A forced kiss is Not A Good Thing.

    Often fictional characters do things that are Not Good Things. If every fictional character engaged in purely admirable actions, fiction would be pretty boring.

    So I'm not clear on your point.

    (Also, for heaven's sake, can you people abandon this "feminism feminism aiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!" thing? "Feminists" are not some single Borg hive mind where every member is in complete agreement. Now, most feminists do agree that sexual activity calls for (gasp!!!) consent. If you don't like that, well, you're going to have to deal.)

    Edited to add: A forced kiss is not rape, and a slap is not murder. That doesn't make either of them OK.
     
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  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll "It's a messy business." :P Supporter Contributor

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    No, it isn't. But it is an action that leads to a normal reaction.
    Watch 60's Bond flicks, for a bit more on forced kissing.

    Not going to jump into the SJW or Gender arena of politics.
    Society has come a long way since the 60's. :)
     
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  11. jannert

    jannert Who? Whooo? Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, this. Make sure the attitude you are conveying is an accurate representation of your own point of view. What is it you are wanting to say about these characters? Be honest with yourself. And then write honestly.

    No matter what you write, somebody won't like it. Just make sure that what they don't like is what you actually meant to say.
     
  12. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    @JustYourAverageWriter when you say "tries to kiss her against her will", do you mean goes for a kiss and she slaps him away, or something more harassing or raping where he's deliberately ignoring her lack of interest? That changes the scenario in terms of audience reaction, character portrayal and scene relevance.
    But, you could probably do it. At least if it's not too far down the second, more serious end. A light infraction or accident will be forgiven. Serious misdeeds will be harder to forgive and more likely to make the relationship seem corrupt. You would need to be significant meaningful redemption for that to be overlooked for a relationship. (Unless you want the relationship to be bad?)
     
  13. Lemie

    Lemie Contributor Contributor

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    When I first read this post I thought HE slapped HER because she didn't want to kiss him and I got slightly uncomfortable.

    She slapping him feels like it would depend on the context. What is kissing against her will? If he just leans into a kiss which she doesn't want her reaction would probably be backing off or pushing him away, not a full slap. If he grabs her head, face or in any other way feels threatening then I don't think slapping him would be that weird of a reaction.

    Though from the little information you're giving I'd say I don't really root for this couple.
     
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  14. matwoolf

    matwoolf Contributor Contributor

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    How about that guy in the video clip woos the waitress?

    He goes back to the restaurant and explains properly to her how he was threatened by her abundance of butt cheek in the corridor, he was coming back from the 'john' he says, having only just thrown up the raw chicken SHE served him earlier. He recalls in the series of flashbacks - butt/chicken/butt/chicken/butt/butt/butt - the last thing he remembers before she committed the high karate assault on the little fellow...

    'And by the way why were you wearing only your underpants inside the restaurant?' he says.

    She smiles, and that's the beginning of a friendship, it takes many years but with his assistance she natal-births three womxn probably of her own during their franchise,their relationhood
     
  15. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    Kissing a girl because otherwise she'll die in a coma is not a "forced kiss". It's saving her life. And yes I have seen, and probably could directly quote, people saying that a "forced kiss" is literally rape. As for what feminism is or isn't...I refrain from commenting so I don't get blacklisted by ANTIFA but I will openly say, I'm not a fan of the faction as a whole. That's not an insult it's just my feelings having dealt with it.

    Ninja edit: I've also been told at least twice that criticizing a female character in a movie is misogynistic. Not criticizing her for being female, criticizing her AT ALL. As in any form of criticism even if they do something completely illogical or actually evil, like committing murder.
     
  16. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    You've probably been told that murdering people is wrong, too, but I assume you're not on a crusade to scare people away from including murder in their novels?

    You're bringing way more baggage to this discussion than is necessary.
     
  17. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    That was not the OP's premise. You brought that strawman into the discussion.

    I can find people to say all sorts of insane things. So?

    (Really, it strikes me as most likely that someone called a forced kiss "sexual assault" in the "groping" definition of sexual assault, and someone who heard or read that statement found that a thesaurus defines sexual assault as, among countless other things, rape, and they danced a little dance of terror-of-feminists glee, and then went and posted somewhere. But it is also always possible that someone was crazy enough to call a forced kiss rape.)

    I don't care if you're a fan; it's your apparent belief in some sort of borg, and your apparent belief that feminism is equal to the craziest thing that the craziest person says about it, that makes me roll my eyes.
     
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  18. Wreybies

    Wreybies Arroz Con Admin Operations Manager Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I don't have the temperament to babysit this thread today. I'm going to end up being that parent who loses their shit and instead of just pulling the estate wagon over and stopping the childish feud in the backseat, puts the car in neutral and rolls it into a lake, all hands onboard.

    To the OP: At its core, your question is seeking permission from us to include this element in your story. Permission. That's the core of your question. Why would you seek permission from anyone? Make your choices, own their outcomes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

    As to the other members.... what the actual?

    :closed:
     
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