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  1. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    Is this too unusual, structurally?

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by TirelessSeven, Nov 26, 2018.

    Okay, so I'm pretty confident in my writing - at least my willingness to persevere with it until I think it's good - but I have this story... actually, I have 120,000 words written (give or take) of a novel that I've been working on for about three years. The first-draft is roughly three-quarters done and I would like to trim it down (ideally) to less than 100,000 (complete) if possible. I mean, if the story ends up being 200,000 words and it's the best thing I can make it, I'll take that, although I realise such a hefty word count would make the possibility of an agent or a publisher taking a chance on it even more unrealistic.

    In case the words-per-month ratio didn't give it away: I'm not a professional. I've never been published anywhere. In fact, the novel is my first attempt at writing since high school (which was a long time ago for me now), aside from a bit of poetry and song-lyrics, and one (very) short-story. That's enough background.

    My novel. I worry it's a bit too... strange - especially for an unknown - to pitch it to agents, publishers, etc. But, since that's what I plan to do, I guess I'm wondering what you guys think. Not of my chances of being published - I know how slim those are already - more the concept of the book, its structure, etc.

    It's all in tight-third with one POV, but I have four stories running concurrently - two of which have been resolved by the three-quarter mark. The MC is introduced in the first chapter. She's a thief (pretty standard for fantasy so far) and the job she does in the beginning informs the main thrust of the story. The second chapter continues that main story-line, introduces secondary characters and world elements. It takes place in a massive - for the ancient world - city with a Chinese feel (it's not China), the size of which is facilitated by the fantasy element: That traditional Chinese/Asian type medicine has exaggerated effects on humans and that - through ritual - learned men and women can manipulate the way things grow.

    (I should mention that I have absolutely (shamelessly) cherry-picked elements from Chinese/Asian culture and mythology that I want to use and (callously) disregarded aspects that don't suit. It's based on Chinese culture in the same way that a lot of fantasy is based on European culture: loosely.)

    So here is where, I think, things get weird(?): Chapter 3 begins with my MC playing cards with her Grandmother as a very young girl. There's no explanation as to the shift in time and I never - at any point in the book - mention her actual age. It's immediately clear from the writing (I hope) that she's much younger here than in the previous chapters and there is a thematic tie-in to the previous chapter - there is each time I shift story-lines throughout - and an attentive reader will probably be able to place each piece of the story into a developing (non-linear) time-line of her life, fairly quickly. By Ch 12, all four story-lines are in play - on irregular rotation - and I think, by then it should be pretty clear to all (who stick with it) how the story is being told.

    It's a very character-driven story. The main themes are, I guess, loss, struggle for control and ultimately the MC's inability/unwillingness to forgive. There's a lot of drug use (given the fantasy element) and other social issues in play - empire, religion, distribution of wealth, poverty, caste, race, etc - none of which I feel qualified to 'solve', but my character's story does have a resolution.

    The four story-lines are:

    1: The main story - she's a thief who freelances for a group of organised criminals. A job takes her down a path of discovery that leads to the Old City - the heart of the empire.
    2: The story of her childhood home - she loses her family and places her trust in someone she shouldn't - it costs her.
    3: She ends up in Yellow Town - a slum where she meets a friend but her deteriorated mental-state causes all sorts of issues for them and they end up having to flee the area.
    There's a short interlude where they are essentially homeless.
    4: A chance encounter begins a time with a mentor (of sorts) which brings her life to the beginning of the main story.

    It sounds terrible summed-up like that, but I am trying to keep it short.

    I'm confident all the clues are there throughout, I'm just not sure if it will be too confusing for most to bother with. Did I mention the writing is good? Also, the Chapters are all titled and vary greatly in length (700 - 5300 words). At the three-quarter mark, I have 55 of those.

    So that's a (not so) brief overview. If anyone is interested enough to take the time to comment, I am more than happy to elaborate on or clarify any aspect of the story. I've known how it ends since the beginning; three quarters (more or less) of the way through I still don't know exactly how I'm getting there, only that I will.

    Main question is: Does it sound viable as a novel?
     
  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Title the chapters with the timeline (like the year, or year and a season, or year and a month) otherwise you'll confuse the reader and it will take them out of the story when they figure it out.

    Otherwise, well written time jumps is fine with most readers.

    Whether it's viable depends on if you write it well. The story sounds fine.
     
  3. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    Did I mention it's well written?:D

    I will consider the date-headers idea, thanks. Appreciate the input and I appreciate you reading that giant wall of text.

    Thank you.
     
  4. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    Sounds interesting to me. I can think of a few novels that pull this off well. Slaughterhouse Five comes to mind.

    I'd show the book to beta readers to see how they catch on to the time shifts. If it's too confusing, that would be an indication that you should make the timeline more clear. But that sort of thing you can change in the revisions. Sounds like you're pretty bought in on the structure, so maybe write the book you want to write, then make it sellable?
     
  5. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    1-This isn't really a story. It's a setting.
    2-This is a story with a negative arc, and obviously not enough by itself to carry 120000 words.
    3-This is not a story. It is just some things that happen to her.
    4-This is not a story. It is an event and setup.

    I'm not saying your book is without a story. All I'm saying is that whatever the story is, you aren't telling us here. I know you said that the book doesn't have a basic story, but a lot of people feel that way when they first write something and are in too deep to talk about it. Let me ask you this:

    What is the main character's primary action she takes in the physical world, in order to fulfill some external, physical goal? For example, in the movie "Captain America," the story is "Captain America uses his powers to beat up and defeat the Nazis, Hydra, and all the minions of Red Skull in order to save the world."

    Does your main character have a major external goal? What does she have to do to achieve it? How does the beginning and end of the book fit in around it?
     
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  6. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    Yeah, Matt E, there's no doubt it's challenging (and that is what I enjoy as a reader). The way the pieces come together and the world-building drips through the narrative means it will be an absolute beast to change structurally. It's certainly been a beast to write. Then again, I haven't ever heard anyone say their book was easy to write.

    Not ready for betas yet, but it will eventually be part of the process.

    The perspective is very-tight third and it's pretty dark. I kind of view the shifts in story-lines as almost shifts in POV - in that it sometimes gives a bit of breathing space - although it's always the same person.
     
  7. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    Thanks, John Calligan.
    I see what you mean - the story kind of got lost in my attempt at a summation and you're correct, these aren't stories, they're time/place settings that backdrop the story. It is not a linear narrative; rather, it is an interweaving of these four settings and obviously the story itself takes place within them. To put it in linear terms, however: the main character is Ibakhi, born into a mixed-blood family in a society with quite puritanical barriers to social mobility. As a direct result of this, she is subject to traumatic events at an early age following the death of her grandmother; there are (for want of a better word) gang elements that take advantage of the absence of the matriarch (who had been quite well respected), take the family business, kill Ibakhi's father, use her mother as a - well, what women are usually used for in these situations. Ibakhi is young but somewhat precocious, makes a few things happen, ends up in an extremely compromising position, breaks a few laws, spills a bit of blood, the usual...

    After some extreme unpleasantness, she ends up in the slum district of Yellow Town where she runs into Gunto, who is to become a lifelong friend. By this time she's developing quite the survival instinct but without the morality one would perhaps at a later age. Again, stuff happens. She sees a few things she finds untenable, does a few things she's not proud of later, and eventually she and Gunto go on the run from Yellow Town and spend some time homeless, living a hand-to-mouth existence.

    They meet the Potter, a rather enigmatic figure who becomes a saviour of sorts. He instills in Ibakhi at least a rudimentary sense of ethics and introduces her to things that fascinate her, namely the theatre and pottery, for which she has a great aptitude. Gunto picks up work with a few shady characters of his earlier acquaintance while Ibakhi establishes herself as a ceramic artist and begins to lose some of her mistrust of humanity.

    But of course things happen to upset that. They don't live in an idyllic society after all, and she still has this mixed blood thing hanging over her. Over the course of her time with the Potter and his associate Bamboo, she learns to defend herself extremely well and picks up plenty of other somewhat shady skills. She also gets a "proper" job as a set engineer with a local theatre and becomes quite well known in theatre circles as a craftsperson of significant imagination and ability. While this is going on, she is also running a few jobs with Gunto and for his dodgy mates. This brings her to the attention of a much higher class of criminal.

    I said before she's a thief - but that's too simple. What she really is, is a perfectionist whose path has taken her to the shadier side often enough in life that she becomes expert in its workings. So there's a certain amount of professional pride at stake when she undertakes a difficult, dangerous job for these difficult, dangerous people - and this is when she learns about a much darker side of the society than the criminals could even imagine representing.

    Which leads to the ultimate goal: Ibakhi learns the secret that holds society in stasis and has done for hundreds of years. And it's the reason her family was destroyed, but of course more than just her family. The sense of justice that has been building for so long comes to the fore, and at this point Ibakhi's pride takes the back seat to her finely-honed craftsperson senses as she sees society as a machine that needs urgent and extreme repair. Ultimately, though her motivation throughout the story seems selfish, she becomes the catalyst for absolute upheaval and widespread revolution.

    Not as black and white as Captain America's journey, but that's it.
     
  8. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    @TirelessSeven I don't know what to tell you. You already have a ton written so I'd say finish it and see what you can cut.

    It sounds like you should be wary of Inactive / Passive / Reactive protagonist and see what you can do to make her compelling: https://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/passive-protagonist/

    It also sounds like you need to be wary of writing a story that "starts too early": https://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/where-should-you-begin-your-story/

    Sometimes things we write at the beginning turn out just to be backstory that doesn't need to be spelled out.

    There are books that I'm not sure I could tell you what the story was, like "To Kill a Mockingbird" and "A Painted House." I'm sure they are studied in school, but I never did. Anyway, both of those books have a long series of events and reactive young protagonists/POV characters, so you might find some inspiration there.
     
  9. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    Thanks, I'll take all that into consideration.
     
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  10. Carriage Return

    Carriage Return Member

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  11. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    I've spent a lot of time editing and rewriting - I'd estimate about 80% of the total writing time - and I think it fits together pretty well so far, but yes, I know there's a lot more work to come if I want to get it just right. And as you say, I'm going to have to. It's lucky I'm tireless.:D

    I bookmarked that website (and the one John Calligan suggested), thank you. Trying to write a book has been a very steep learning curve. The writing itself feels pretty natural (most of the time), to the point where, when it doesn't, I know I'm doing something wrong - even if it takes me a long time to identify what that is. I do worry my lack of education (technical knowledge) and experience will be more of a hindrance after the first-draft is complete, but I guess we'll see. Hopefully resources like these (and the ones that exist on the forum) will make it less of an issue.

    Thank you.
     
  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This is your story and all the rest is peripheral.

    You could fix that by weaving this discovery and all that back story together. Hint at things, foreshadow things, weave in discoveries that lead up to the larger discovery make the hardships relevant to the story so the reader knows there is an important struggle going on, not just things happening.

    You need to do some homework. Read up on The Hero's Journey. It might help you with that weaving.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHerosJourney
    https://www.storyboardthat.com/articles/e/heroic-journey
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey


    Edited to add, this is not about a formula, it's about understanding story.
     
  13. TirelessSeven

    TirelessSeven Active Member

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    Yeah, you're right. The rest is just there to give context.

    That's one of the reasons it's written the way it is. The discoveries she makes - that lead her to the larger discovery about her society - don't happen in a linear fashion, she finds little pieces of the puzzle at different times in her life and is only able to put them together toward the end (hopefully at the same time as the reader, although there is opportunity for the reader to understand there's a bigger picture much earlier).

    The other reason it's told this way is because she's the one telling it. There's a conversation between her and another interlaced through the narrative - it pops up now and again when the other wants her to clarify things or question her (like I said, it's a strange story) - and she has (wants) to keep certain details from that other person in the same way I have to keep certain details from the reader in order not to give the game away too early.

    The Hero's Journey is something I'm familiar with - and it does apply here. I'll certainly check those out, thanks.
     

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