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  1. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    legal fine print and isbn

    Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by 354897, Feb 28, 2021.

    1 I want to go with print on demand publishing and ebook companies with many different ones of both kinds.
    My question is I am greatly concerned with agreeing with many agreements is there any tricks they can pull on me in the "fine print", can they take any rights away from me somehow with legal trickery, or any other undesirable possibilities with my book.(I will try to not go with exclusive programs just free to go with multiple companies ones)

    2 also same as last question if i hand my book to a free editor can they steel it somehow and run with it, with the fine print of acceptance to use their free service

    3 does it matter if i use serval isbn numbers for my book (the free option from many different print on demand companies) or should i have just one for all, does it make a difference for the long run
     
  2. SapereAude

    SapereAude Member

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  3. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    no one legit wants to steal your book... but you should be aware that a free editor will be worth what you didn't pay (and yeah you ought to read the fine print on anything you are agreeing... although an unreasonable contract can be broken in court)... a good editor will be pretty expensive... but theres no point in hiring a bad one

    That aside the big players - KDP, kobo, B&N, Apple, Draft2Digital etc arent interested in pulling a fast one - why would they ? You do have to look out for vanity publishers masquerading as publishing services though... the key there is not to pay for publishing up front (with the main players you pay a percentage of your take).

    In regard of isbn ... if you buy your own isbn from bowker (in the Us ) or Neilsen (in the Uk) or whatever your countries distributor is, you can use it everywhere... if you use free isbns from KDP, B&N etc you can only use them on the service that provides them
     
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  4. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    You need only a single ISBN. You can purchase your own, but single ISBNs are expensive. KDP offers free ISBNs. I have heard that these flag your book as self-published. I have done it both ways, and I don't think it makes any difference. If you are planning to write several books, buy about ten or so from Bowker. You can use them and sell the rest to somebody, or buy an ISBN from someone who bought a bunch and has some left over.
     
  5. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    The two mainstream POD houses, KDP and Ingram Spark, are above board and reputable, We have published 5 books between my wife and I via KDP and 1 via IS. The advantage of IS is that it is the vehicle into bookstores and libraries, because it has a return policy for vendors. The disadvantage is that they charge $25 to publish and $25 to update your book, while KDP is entirely free, and I have found them much harder to work with. Almost all my sales are via Amazon on-line, so I haven't found IS to be any advantage to me.
     
  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    point of note - you can't use the free KDP isbn anywhere other than KDP. The whole making it look self published thing is only important if you are selling print books outside of amazon.. ie via bookshops who can read the isbn... the end user doesn't care

    incidentally you shouldn't sell isbns on or buy them from other users because whoever registered the isbn is the publisher of record
     
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  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    you can always find codes online to negate those charges... last I checked GETPUBLISHED was evergreen and NANO2020 was good until the end of march... there'll be others... if you're a member of Alli they have a code for there members that also negates the charges
     
  8. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    On the legal issue--for something like this it's crazy to sign a contract that you didn't read. If you're concerned about the legal 'fine print,' read it.
     
  9. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    1 i read that there is a risk with book returns if the book store doesnt want them and you have to buy them back, if you are invested in many book stores is it a real risk to get major book returns in massive quantities,

    2 this being the case can you set a limit of books that are returnable at instagram/where ever else. like for example 2 books per store
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    1) in practice its not an issue for POD because a bookstore will only order them when they have a customer order... you're not likely to see a high volume of either sales or returns.

    2) no you can't... and if you did the bookstores would simply not buy from you
     
  11. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    i dont understand the book store needs to prestock them for their shelfs

    i also read that somehow the book store would contact you giveing you the option of going with a bunch of books, and that thing i read said that be carfull of that if you think that that many will actually sell
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    the chances of the bookstore stocking your self published books on the shelf space is effectively nil for your first book (unless you're a celebrity or something... or you have a personal relationship with the store owner)... the only way they'll sell your book is if a customer wanders in and asks them to order it for them

    I've got a promise to stock a few copies of my book day of the eagle from a local bookshop but thats because the owner is big into ww2 aviation and has been helping me with the research

    Obviously if you have a breakout best seller they might decide to stock the sequel... but that doesn't apply to most of us, generally the way to get stocked is if a lot of your fans are asking for the books... so the seller thinks 'hey this is popular'...but again on book 1, what fans?

    I would be very cautious of a bookstore contacting you as an unknown and offering anything... stores don't do that so it is almost certainly some kind of scam
     
  13. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    but if one where ever in the position of having tons of books being stocked physically in the store, then is it a real risk of major returns. my book is religious if that makes a difference, and no plans to make a second one.
    I also plan to have the book be very cheap(where i make either nothing or close to it) so im concerned of returns if i dont make money on it

    2 if i wanted my book to be just the costs of of printing/pod fees, or whateever misc, where i dont get any money from it is it possible to set up the pod/whatever to be this way, how can i get this to be as free as possible
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Yes - but you won't be... and nor will anyone else here with the exception of very few established writers, so its not something that i'd suggest anyone needs to lose sleep over.

    if you were the type of james patterson / jk rowling level author who has tonnes of books on shelves in store you'd also be making so much money that refunding a few returns wouldn't be a major issue for you
     
  15. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    if i wanted my book to be just the costs of of printing/pod fees, or whateever misc, where i dont get any money from it is it possible to set up the pod/whatever to be this way, how can i get this to be as free as possible(where i make either nothing or close to it)

    with this in mind do you feel my previous question would still not be an issue
     
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    its possible to set the price on your PoD book to a point where you don't get any royalties (It wont actually be just the print cost because the POD service still wants to make a profit).

    and this will make sure that returns are definitely not an issue because no bookshop will touch it with a bargepole... (bearing in mind that your wholesale price is usually discounted by about 30-55% of retail, if you set the retail that low discount won't be possible and thus no shop will buy it)
     
  17. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    i dont mind if they make their own profit on it provided its their normal profit margin, how can i set it up where i dont get anything but they can make a resasonable profit(the book store)

    2 can you humor me on the returns, if i was lucky enouth to get in a allot of stores would returns be a real issue were i have to buy them back(im not saying for sure it would happen, just for info sake), especially since i dont make any money
     
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    you can't easily... if you want be able to wholesale it has to have a sensible rrp... your best bet would be to make a commitment that all profit from the book will be donated to xyz charity

    they could be... but bear in mind that you only have to return what was paid... strictly speaking the store returns them to gardeners who return them to ingram who knock the payment for them off your royalty... if you've not spent the royalty because you're going to donate it, thats no problem

    equally if you somehow got your no royalty book stocked then thered be nothing to pay back.
     
  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    deleted as misleading... this is the problem with trying to simplify difficult concepts
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Also when people talk about the nightmare scenario they're mostly thinking of a non POD model.. which would go like this

    You get your manuscript printed at your own cost for say $2 a book... you then stash boxes and boxes of the book of power in your garage

    When your family are heartily sick of the sight of the unsold boxes of books taking up all their garage space and your wife is asking pointed questions about the $2k hole in your bank account, you approach me at mooses best books and offer me the wonderful chance to acquire the sure fire best seller at only $4 a book... being a credulous fool I jump at this opportunity and hand you $4k of my company capital and you promptly spend the 2k profit on a new kitchen, car, alcohol or feeding the homeless (delete as applicable).

    three weeks pass in which no one buys your book... i am not happy about this and show up at your place in my uhaul van with your 1000 copies and say "here's your books back, where's my money?"

    "Oh" you say "i spent it on a new kitchen,car, alcohol, feeding the homeless"

    "you havent heard the last of this" i say angrily slapping you firmly with a halibut "my lawyers will be in touch"
     
  21. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    are you saying the book store will send the copies back to ingram/pod instead of me and i dont have to pay for the printing costs/ingrams fees or whatever the bookstore paid,i assumed it ment i had to pay back all the printing costs/pod costs shipping costs/ all total costs and i would have the books also in my possetion

    if that is the case does ingram sell that same book again to the next order they get?
     
  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    it sounds like you think you buy the books from ingram and then send them to bookshops... that ain't how it works... ingram arrange for your book to be listed in the gardiners catalogue... the bookshop buys it from that catalogue and ingram print it and ship it... that's what print on demand means

    so in the case of a return the bookstore doesnt care about you, their contract is with the supplier... they send the books back to the company who supplied them e,g ingram, who deduct the whole sale cost paid for that book (Note that i was wrong before they deduct the entire whole sale cost, not just your royalty... however its the wholesale cost not the rrp)

    More info here https://www.ingramspark.com/blog/making-your-book-returnable

    point of note you can chose whether you want to receive returned copies (there's a surcharge for delivery if so currently $2 per book un the US $20 per book internationally) or if you want them returned to ingram to be pulped
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    as i said earlier its not likely to be an issue because the chances of your first and only book being shelved by bookstores are effectively nil.. the only likely bookshop sales are if someone asks the store for it and the store orders it for them... in that case returns are not an issue
     
  24. 354897

    354897 New Member

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    1 no i didnt think i was going to ship out the books, what I thought was that i was 100 percent responsible for the entire costs if the book was returned meaning everything including costs of the print OD, shipping to book store and shipping back (are you saying the pod eats the costs)
    2 you now said "Note that i was wrong before they deduct the entire whole sale cost" does that change what you said before about i only have to pay back my royalty only or do i now have to pay back the full wholesale costs
    3 you said "or if you want them returned to ingram to be pulped" are you saying they will destroy the copy rather than holding onto it and reselling it, if they take it back
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    honestly just look at the link from ingram i posted all the information is there... i really don't know why you are making such a fuss about something that will never happen anyway... bookshops are not going to shelve your book, so you'll only see very occasional returns deducted from royalties (its unusual for anyone to return a book they've specifically ordered... only if the customer welshes on the purchase and that doesnt happen often)

    this scenario you've created where bookshops order thousands of copies of your first and only selfpublished book and then return them is a fantasy
     
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