In case you haven't noticed, we have added three new members to the mod crew: @big soft moose, @jannert, and @Iain Aschendale. All three have been around here quite a while, have proven themselves to be good, thoughtful, and stable members, and have the best interests of the forum at heart. With a forum as active as ours, three or four active mods clearly aren't enough. We needed the boost, and the fresh ideas. So come on, everyone, and welcome our new moderators!
They were brought onto the team because they have shown a dedication to the smooth function of the forum community and because the existing staff really does have lives out in the three-dimensional world of solid matter, which we want them to be able to attend. Expect a revitalized dedication to the forum's intended purpose as a writing forum. Those of you who find it difficult to avoid or ignore politicized topics or trains of conversation may find more contact with the forum staff than you have experienced in the past. New blood, fresh eyes, in that vein. The increased staff presence is to ensure that the vast majority of members who come to the forum to use it for its intended purpose can do so with a minimum of friction from concerns that are outside of our venue.
Short version: This looks like a culture change. A bit more guidance on that culture change might make it go smoother. Long version: So, I hang out on a variety of forums, some of which are a free-for-all, one at the opposite end in a quite successful way, in that the moderators have a crystal-clear concept of what's allowed and what isn't and matter-of-factly delete lots of posts. (Cursing? Fine as long as it's not in the subject line. Medical or legal advice? Your post will vanish in an instant. Calling a post stupid? Dandy. Calling a poster stupid? Vanish. That kind of thing.) For some time, WritingForums has been nudged a bit from the center toward the free-for-all. I'm not saying that to be snarky. I understand that limited moderator time results in triage, and so when someone makes a post that has elements of a political rant and/or a personal attack, but isn't clearly over either line, the post may remain until that poster racks up more issues over time. In that situation, the only response is for other posters is to quietly submit or to respond. Not many people here are into quietly submitting. If this has changed, and the moderators will have time to step in to deal with those posts, and it's OK to Report those posts because they have time for that, then it will be infinitely easier to ignore those posts in the moment. But that's a culture change. So maybe some specific statements--even if it's just, "If in doubt, DO report, and we'll sort it out" (because I have stopped reporting in the past few weeks) would be useful in smoothing out that culture change.
Welcome, new mods @big soft moose , @jannert , and @Iain Aschendale , and thank you all for taking this on!
My feeling is that I would like to see an end to toxic threads. Most threads get toxic because folks start attacking/insulting/belittling other forum members for holding certain views they don't agree with. It's fine to disagree with the view itself, but not to attack the person who holds it. Everybody who joins this forum should feel safe to express an opinion By all means, attack that opinion if you don't agree with it, (I don't agree with that, because....) and make a case for your own point of view. Who knows, you might even convert somebody. But don't attack the other member. If they attack you, report it. I am hoping this toxicity will stop, without any more unpleasantness, and we can all relax. We're all smart people and I presume we can exercise self-control over how we interact with others.
As far as I'm concerned - yes absolutely report posts that break the rules. Don't expect that we'll action every single report, because in some cases we won't agree with the reporter that there's an issue. Also be aware that we are going to practice what Wreybies calls the clean hands rule - that is if we arrive in an augmentative, toxic mess of a thread, everyone in there who is breaking the rules will be treated the same - we aren't going to entertain a yeah but he started it, didn't, did so, paradigm. So if you see something that you think is a problem - report it, don't deal with it yourself.
I'm pointing, though, to the "If in doubt..." thing. If I'm not quite sure if a post breaks the rules, I'm assuming I can still Report it and the moderators will either act on it or ignore? I'm not talking about hundreds of, "He doesn't like my favorite author!" posts, but there are a lot of edge cases. Mentioning any one of them is likely to set this thread on fire, so I won't.
One of my favourite snaps from 'back in the day' back-packing. @Moose far left, of course, @Iain steadfast in the centre ground and @jannert down there at the front with her fists. That's me at the back on the right looking on behind @BayView's hair.
Welp! I'm done twice already might as well do it a third time. Wanted to post a video of the bad boys theme, not sure if is allowed here so I refrained. So just pretend the Bad Boys theme was going!! Anyways congrats again guys! Good luck keeping me in line, LOL!!
I like that. I have always felt that you guys probably have to deal with over-reporting more than you do with actual rule breakers. I've wanted to make a suggestion for a long time that you send a warning to over-reporters too and not just rule breakers. Over-reporting I'm sure wastes a lot of your time.
over reporting's not a big deal tbh - it takes only a few seconds to read a report and hit reject if its not valid I'd always prefer a member to report than to try to deal with it themselves, or to just sit there stewing about it. The only time it gets annoying is when you've got two members maliciously reporting each other backwards and forwards - if that happens i will just ask both of them to act like adults
Which is why I've learned to keep it one-sided, it just report if I feel they are deliberately antagonizing.
You're not wrong, and as Moose has already stated, innocents are rare as hen's teeth in those matters. Worse is when it goes from individual on individual to group on group. The very acme of the whole kerfuffle is when individuals or groups moralize and adopt the idea that their "righteousness" is what makes them right. More often than not, it turns them into the very thing they claim to disavow. I'm getting the impression that the new staff is a bit of a shake-up. I think that's actually perfectly fine.
I want to give Kudos to Moose on how he handled "the first 3 sentences" thread yesterday. Very well done. Last month that could have been handled disastrously.
And just to be clear, I know I'm Not Innocent in this. I'm easily riled up, LOL. Which is why I learned, to just report if I feel they're deliberately trying to antagonize me instead of going in on them. I tried to have conversations, but I don't seem very good at it with a certain group. LOL!
Yeah! Same here. I can't believe that that thread got moded. I was like what Minstrel said I think, about three senses not being enough for a sense of the story. Which is why I usually avoid the three sentence thread. Though it did help a bit with structure
It shouldn't need to be said but lets get it out there - we are aware that there are different groups of members here who for whatever reason have an animus towards each other ... there's probably a fascinating anthropological study to be written in internet tribal dynamics and the psychological drivers. However as a moderator I don't care about that, at all. All I care about is that members obey the rules, play nice and generally act like adults, so that the forum is a pleasant place for everyone to talk about writing and help each other as a community should. So its important to be clear that there isn't one group of good guys who the mods are going to side with and one group of bad guys who about to get theirs like some bad B movie. Everyone who engages in tribal warfare is equally part of the issue. I don't want to ban or even warn anyone, what I'd like is for people to make that not necessary. However if people choose to break the rules I or one of my fellow mods will deal with the issue by whatever means are necessary and appropriate I'd also like to be clear that it matters not at all whether you think you're my best mate, or whether you and I have had words in the past. As a moderator I will be fair and neutral and deal with every problem on its merits/dismerits.
And that's how it should be! As an officer of the law on this forum, you have a responsibility to be a middle ground. Also I would love a write-up on the tribalism within a single forum. It'd be as ugly as a Fallout forums, LOL I'm part of the anti-hero sect, in other words I cause trouble for a good reason. LOL and I never back down. which is why I have to use my new tactic
Congratulations (and condolences) Blessed be the peacekeepers, for they shall wear thick skin and wield implements of patience.
