^ I know, that's what I'm saying. Some of the other comments on the thread seemed to be talking about the word "lol" in itself (including occasional usage), including the implication that someone who used "lol" on a forum would do so in their fiction writing, so I just wanted to point out the difference. I knew you didn't mean the occasional lol-er in the OP.
I don't see the point in getting worked up about it. Anyone who wants to say "lol" while reviewing my works should feel free. I'd also appreciate an "ain't" or a "y'all" or an "oldfangled", if the occasion calls for it. Really, if the person is speaking understandable english and not abbreviating ridiculously or somesuch, it's not bothersome to me. My real problem with criticizing people who say "lol" is that it makes me feel...well, a little uncomfortable. Like the forum is too formal. I mean, if people get upset over a simple "lol", then what other tiny things are going to escalate into problems? It makes me feel that if I do the slightest thing wrong, it's the ban cannon for me.
It also depends on the works - I put a LOL with one earlier because it really did make me laugh out loud. The work was funny, I suspect the intention of the poet was to produce a LOL. If you don't like it there is an ignore function. That way you don't need to read any posts that annoy you.
I repeat, netspeak has no place in critique threads. This is a matter of site policy. In other parts of the site, it is more discretionary.
My prediction is that "lol" will become a part of regular spoken English, pronounced somewhat like "lull."
I always imagine it as rhyming with "dole." Wait, so you're saying that a four-paragraph-long, detailed, specific critique with ONE "lol" thrown into the entire thing is inappropriate?
I just wanted to clear something up Cogito, does this mean that if I leave a sensible critique on a piece in Workshop, and my critique contains one or two appropriately placed imo (in my opinion) and lol (laugh out loud) you will go into my comment and delete the "offending words" or, if I am more unlucky than that, delete my entire comment or if I am unluckier still, give me an infraction for "breaking site rules"? Or worse? Or what does it mean? It is already a site rule that non-sensical comments such as the ones containing only a simple "lol" and nothing else, will be deleted, but to try and censor people's speech in a way that a simple lol is almost considered a verbum delicti that is just
I was thinking Loll - I have to confess I do think it sometimes. It sort of replaces ''you're so droll'' very nicely or in places I want to be sarcastic.
The rule I found says "This is a writing forum. Occasional use of common net abbreviations is tolerated, but excessive use of netspeak is discouraged." There is nothing about never using it in specific areas. And Cogito, could you please clear up something? My understanding was that you had stepped down as a mod. Not to be argumentative, but if that's the case, how would your declaration have any more "oomph" than, for example, mine? It just seems to me that things sometimes get a little high-handed around here, what with arbitrarily deleted posts and expansion of rules without notice, etc etc. It's a good path to lost membership, frankly.
'lol' has ceased to be an abbreviation and is now a word in its own right, as far as I am concerned. It's slang, not netspeak anymore. I'd say it when speaking to my friends in normal conversation. That said, I think Cogito got it right when he said about placement. You have to be careful when and where you use it, as with all types of language to an extent. If someone critiqued my work and littered it with lols and such then it wouldn't annoy me, but I'd probably treat their opinions with less respect, even if I didn't mean to, which would be a shame if what the person had to say was of great value.
Interestingly both LOL and yer have OED entries. The former is classed as an exclamation, used informally, chiefly in electronic communication and the latter is in because it was a dialect form of you before the internet began (its origins are in Old English). LMAO apparenly is vulgar slang RO(T)FL is still only abbreviation. So yes, LOL! is no longer considered just netspeak or abbreviation but is an informal exclamation. Are they all banned as well ? Damn! The word netspeak is not in the OED and appears to be the only word in this discussion the OED does not recognise as having any form of legitimacy in the English language at this point. Textspeak, leetspeak, newspeak, and geekspeak are words. So in UK English I can use LOL! and LMAO, but I shouldn't be calling it netspeak. Although said dictionary also has a whole raft of non PG-13 words hmm ... oddly I seem to remember having this conversation with my mother over the word nice when I was about eight. To her generation it was a four letter word and as vulgar as any other word I could use like maybe LMAO (actually she doesn't find the 'a' four letter word or the 's' one half as vulgar as the 'n' word). With my Great Aunt Emily who was a scouser I had a similar discussion about the word Look. Pronouncing it luck was considered vulgar, the 'oo' should be pronounced. My Gran used pigs melt as her heavy duty swear word. I can think of better, much more effective ones when I stub my toe. I won't get onto the discussions I had at university in the South of England about baff vs barth (bath) or larf instead of laff (laugh). I mean how can you have a really good larf. What is proper and what is vulgar by way of language changes so fast and changes by nationality, that I think what is acceptable in a forum post in the critique area should be re-evaluated if no netspeak is ever to be allowed even when it filters into everyday, frequent use. That is not encouraging wide ranging use of the English language.
Shouldn't this thread have been removed for being a contentious topic and by that reasoning against forum rules or has that changed since I've been away ?
Amongst teenagers it is already a part of regular spoken conversation. It is not pronounced "lull" though. It's more "lawl" or like "doll" with a L instead of D. This tiny abbreviation does not bother me. I feel that the common ones are fine, when used sparingly. Ones that can be interpreted into multiple phrases, not so much. And there's always place for a good ROFLMAOPMP (Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off peeing my pants) after a particularly hysterical commentary. The original ROFL apparently is pronounced "Roffel" And yes, I do spend way too much time around teenagers. Product of the last job I held. All that aside, yes, I feel they are o.k. sometimes, but so help me if you go off on a tirade of L33T 5p3@k and I will probably go postal. What the heck is leet speak anyway? Why was it ever named that? I understand it originated from the first texting experiences where all one had was the number pad and was therefore required to hit the same number repeatedly to get to the letter they required, but "leet speak"? Why call it that?
It's L337 5p3@k* And is more of a teenage gamer language (Runescape) Leet is derived from "Elite" as in E-leet
My first contact with "leet speak" was the hacker community. Some kids who thought they were cool called themselves "elite", implying they belonged to the best hackers. And to really show how cool they were, they pronounced it leisurely, like "leet". This was back in the late 80's / early 90's, when "forums" were called "Bulletin Board Systems" and people connected to them directly with modems. Since the forums were character-based and graphically rather monotonous, people often got creative and tried to create pictures out of ASCII characters. My guess is that's how the "leet" spelling got started, and used by the people who thought they were cooler than the rest. It didn't take long before "leet speak" became an object of ridicule and started to be used ironically. Regarding netspeak... I don't think the problem is with netspeak in itself, but rather with the general attitude and lack of clarity with people who use it extensively. Like they're noobs lol who suck!! at writing coherent sentences ROFLMAO. I can even see a point to using netspeak on a writing forum: to learn to write modern, realistic-sounding dialogue. Or realistic-looking, as dialogue may be in the form of text chat these days.
Age must be a real pain sometimes. Hating on 'lol' is something. That said, there are a bunch of people that always post 10 word replies which consists of lols and not much else. Though using it as a word in pulbic makes me rage. They always say it in a manner of, hey listen to me, i'm funny, scarcasic. It's lame. Having been on the internet since 95, i say i don't really read that part of posts anyway. My mind skips right over it. It's old and just background noice.
I think this is the relevant section of the rules: It doesn't say anything specifically about netspeak in the Review Room.
Tell me about it. I just left a forum over the silly idea of being 'real bikers.' It appears now that just wearing your grandfather's clothes justifies your credentials. I never did understand how stealing someone's clothes, their life's accomplishments or their place in time brings anyone 'street creds.' In the end you have to make peace with your place in 'real time.' I'm a baby boomer, and we were always treated as being forever young. Even at my age I do not look that old, go to the gym everyday and out-perform every twenty-something in the place. The real issue is this 'time' thing. It appears alright to steal an era, but you must negate the actual survivor and re-define the nature of what he represents. And the computer, cell phones, texting, etc. is the classic problem. Do you know how silly it looks to roll up in the parking lot of Harley shop, park your bike and then the first thing you do is unzip your jacket and check your messages? Just accept the clock to tick forward. I fully expect to see a 'biker' see a new custom and gush "OMG." However, if he had to go back in time and actually live in the world of the 1960s his reaction would be the same as mine if thrust into the Depression Era. Tempus fugit.
In a generation or so, LOL will be in the dictionary just like OK. And by that time, people will be complaining that whatever is a trend in speech by then isn't proper, and that the youth should use a proper and approved LOL in their text. Just wait and see.
I take offense at you comparing the distraction of hearing someone with Tourette's Syndrome with the use of the abbreviation "lol" in a sentence. In short Cogito, I feel as if you are short on compassion. I've dealt with having a serious case of Tourette's Syndrome for the last 45 years (since age 2), only having it diagnosed when I was 21 at the Oregon Health Sciences University. It is small-mindedness such as this that makes it difficult to teach people about the pain and suffering, social and physical, that goes on when one's body jerks and tears to the side, or how sore a throat is after having several hours of a 'coughing' tic. How about how socially awkward it is to utter swear words, socially inappropriate racial slanders, or repeating what others might say over and over and over again without being able to stop? How in the hell does this compare with "LOL"??? For all your haughtiness, you have proven yourself to be a real cad in my book. If it is people such as yourself helping run this forum, it isn't worth wasting one's time with. Yeah, I took it personally. No other way to take it. ~Mordred
I feel your anger. I react the same way to similar ways of referring to mental illnesses. Don't look for a lot of sympathy or empathy around here though.
I do apologize for offending anyone with Tourette's. That is a legitimate medical condition, and I shouldn't have used that for comparison. The random LOL outbursts have no excuse other than laziness or trying to be cutesy. You're right. There is no comparison between that and a devastating condition like Tourette's. Believe me. I would never show or feel contempt toward someone with Tourettes.
Cogito, Your apology is accepted. Believe me when I say, it is awful trying to hold back tics in public so as not to bother people or make them feel uncomfortable. Suppression of tics is akin to holding your thumb over a garden hose when the water is barely running. You can feel the pressure building and eventually it comes out. In forum, I can be ticcing in front of my keyboard like crazy and no one will be bothered. I exhibit all the classic signs of the disorder, shoulder shrugs, throwing my head and arms to the side and other involuntary muscle movements, throat clearing, hooping, sudden vocal outbursts. I also the other not so acceptable signs like coprolalia (swearing), echolalia (repeating another's sounds or words) and palilalia (repeating my own words - especially words that contain bi-labial plosives like the letter "B"). The whole gambit. Luckily I found an outlet for all my energy (played 14 years of football) and a woman who has the patience and understanding to put up with all my noise. It is a trial, but it is one not only for me, but for people around me. I am quite sensitive about the issue and I hope I did not offend you, or anyone else, for coming out with guns blazing. On the subject of "LOL" - If and when I put an "LOL" in a message it is because I did laugh out loud. I do understand though where you are coming from. For me it is the use of the word 'There' 'Their' and 'They're'. Thank you for responding kindly Cogito. It is greatly appreciated. ~Mordred
