Just because someone has an opinion that greatly differs from your own, does not make them a troll. Oh my god, this very moment I just realized I'm being abused by women! I need a support group... and also some chocolate.
No, because you're obviously are trolling. No sane person would support abuse on men because "they should be able to handel them selves".
Oh my gosh. And people ask me how in the world could I possibly be a male rights activist and still sleep at night. Well, folks, this is how that little part of my life happened. Okay, so how does rape of a man happen? Well, just like with women, it can happen in a number of ways. Arousal can happen without any will to actually have sex. Statutory rape is a thing. If you think that doesn't effect males and you believe every teacher story about how that 14 year old seduced her, I feel sorry for you. Rape is a huge problem in prisons. And, you might want to try and say "They're criminals, why do you care?" I care because they're people. We're throwing people in jail to prevent crimes from happening and to have a crime happen in jail, kind of defeats the point. Secondly, a sexual assault in prison can mean the difference between Johnny getting out, readjusting to life as a free man and becoming a contributing member of society or coming out completely messed up and likely to become a sex offender himself. So yes, I care. There is also penetration with foreign objects. Do you want me to go on?
What would be the mechanism of not caring about it? Refusing to accept a criminal complaint? Declaring the assailant not guilty based on statistical rarity? I’m not clear on where you’re going. ...why? Why in earth not? Do men somehow deserve to be beaten and abused, in your eyes? Is a man who isn’t sufficiently big and strong to win a fight with every woman on the planet just not a person? Edited to add: let’s go with an extreme case: if an elderly wheelchair-bound man is beaten by his adult daughter, would you sneer at him and turn him away at the emergency room door? Ok, you must be trolling.
The nasty, brutish, and short life that Hobbes talked about was supposed to be something we want to avoid, not emulate, and that means that when predators like Ted Bundy prey on innocent people, we charge the predator with committing the crime instead of charging the victim with not being able to defend against it. I’ve always found it interesting that feminism stands for men’s rights more than MRAism does.
You can genuinely believe something and still be a troll. Like... if you don’t think men can be raped, that’s an opinion. You’re wrong, but you aren’t trolling. Mocking rape victims for being weak is trolling. Like, the goal there isn’t discussion, the goal is to upset and offend the person you’re talking to. Chill out. You want to talk about it, make a different thread.
I would recommend looking into the MRA's. They are kind of looked at as "do nothing, noisy men" but they really aren't. In fact, watch the documentary The Red Pill which was done by a feminist about the MRA. She was very honest with her approach. But back to your original comment. I think you're funny to say that, because the instant question I get when I say I support men's rights is "Do you hate women then?" No. I support women's rights just as strongly. And it's so funny to see how their head spins, not realizing that you can support both. And you can support both very strongly. Because what you stop caring about is whether it's a man or a woman. You care about the issue. I got those statistics I presented about sexual assault after doing research for my book, which deals with a female sexual assault victim. I read a lot of stories that people were brave enough to post online. What I was specifically looking for is what the attacker told their victim. And I found a shocking number of these stories came from males. I believe them. Why wouldn't I? If I were reading trial transcripts, then I would take a more scrutinizing look at their stories, but they're not on trial here. Mostly because the attacker is someone they know, that's how a lot male rape happens.
Getting back to topic. I really didn't mean for my post to be questioned as far "how do men get raped?" That was a stupid question. But a good question was the OP's question. Why are males have more memorable deaths in stories then female? And I think it's simply writers, whether intentionally or unintentionally, imitating real life.
It's like a twist on traditional misogyny. You're so determined to think of women as weak and lesser that you want to diminish and disown any man who doesn't dominate women. We see this in homophobia, too. A lot of men who are determined to demean women will also demean any man who shows any sort of stereotypically "feminine" mannerisms. Can you offer us any insights into what made you this way? This is a writers' site, so it could be an interesting tool for future characterization. If I had to write a character with this sort of ugly attitude, I think I'd say... domineering, possibly abusive father. Mother didn't protect the child from all of the abuse, and it was easier to blame her for her weakness than Father for the cruelty. Because Baby Boy really needed his father to love him, and respect him. But Baby Boy was "deficient" somehow in Father's eyes... fat? small? glasses, bookish, bad at sports? It doesn't really matter... the boy could have been absolutely average, or better than average in all things and Father still would have found a way to demean him, but Baby Boy didn't know that. Maybe still doesn't. Baby Boy went to school, got bullied a little, and every time someone picked on him he heard Father's voice telling him he was weak, and useless. So, as so often happens, the bullied turned into the bully. Baby Boy started looking for any opportunity to be the strong one, the one with the power. He turned off his empathy, because empathy is weakness, at least to Father. It wasn't long before Baby Boy found a little clique of other damaged boys and they told each other stories that made them feel special, at least for a while. Made them feel strong, even when they weren't. They were too fragile to allow themselves to show sympathy for anyone else... what if one of the other boys saw? What if they thought Baby Boy was like those other people, the ones the little clique needs to despise in order to feel even a little bit good about themselves? No, that couldn't be allowed. So Baby Boy is now Baby Man, still damaged, still going out of his way to be hurtful to others. It's sad, but I don't think it's uncommon. That's how I'd write it.
I'm quite over this thread to be honest, but I just have to say that I have slight writers-crush on you now. Yes writers-crush is a thing now.
Just to be clear I don't have any truck with the troll's nonsense - I know men get abused as well as raped by women - it is less common than the other way around , as well as being less common than male on male but it definitely happens
Writing this morning and this thread came across my mind. So I am writing through the First-Person perspective of a female criminal...she is the hero of the story...antiheroine rather...she is the leader of an organization and she has no problem with picking a fight with someone. She has a bit of a temper and won't hide behind her henchmen to do her dirty work for her. People may view her as a bully at times in the story...now...of course she will fight males and females in the story. When she fights males...well...when they fight back at her I will treat them no differently than females would fight her. What's the difference? If she's kicking a guy's ass and going to the point of killing him, will he just not fight back at all because she's a woman? I would surely think not. I am a male and if I was fighting my antiheroine (I love her to death but if I was a character fighting her), I would do absolutely everything in my power to survive...she doesn't hold back. She's not a perfect fighter by any means but she is very physical. She is very intelligent and protective of her body...she does wear concealed armor underneath her clothes at times. If a male character in the story was to hit her really hard in the chest to damage her and slow her down...if that was the only open spot and she was all clothed up and armor on...would that really be a big deal to the average reader? In a fight for survival, you do everything you can to survive...doesn't matter which gender the person attacking you is. I would think this would be ok. Male vs. male, female vs. female, and male vs. female fights all should be treated the same in my eyes...from both author and reader point of view. I just find it way too boring to see the same genders fighting each other...too much of it in books, movies, comics. C'mon people. In real life, male vs. female physical fights actually happen often so allow it to happen in movies and books and such. I know there are stereotypical things that will come up when it comes to a male vs. female fight but I'm not going to let that stop me from writing a great fight scene between my antiheroine and an experienced male opponent...it may be very violent and bloody and everything but it will feel so real and authentic. She has a vicious fire in her belly, a hunger to fight people when things don't go her way...it is her strength but also her greatest weakness as revealed later in the story. It could lead to her death. Case in point, don't allow the gender of characters in a fight make you as the writer/author scale back or prevent you from writing a fight scene...and of course a death scene if someone is killed in the fight...you want in the story. Playing by the rules of stereotypes is completely BS to me. Make a male vs. female fight as epic as you want it to be.
Why the chest? I’m getting the vibe that you’re seeing the chest as an especially vulnerable and painful area in a way that it isn’t. The chest is a pretty well-armored place, and the fact that women have extra flesh there wouldn’t, I think, change that. (I’m a woman but I don’t fight, hence the “I think”) A man would get more pain from a blow to the abdomen than a blow to the chest, right?
A good hard blow right Over the heart with the heel of a hand will stun most people, probably more effective on men and small chested women then those with lots of padding.
Yeah, I watch a lot of mma fighting. I’ve never seen the outcome of a women’s fight affected by a blow to the chest, however their was a men’s fight last night where one of the combatants was dropped by a single blow to the liver. There are a lot of high profile examples of the liver shot in both men’s and women’s fighting.
I don't think this would affect people very much. As for the trope, it is common, but there is another slightly newer trope that is also overused. The one were the love interest (female) of the MC (male) dies off and it kind of works as a motivator for the hero? Kill whoever you want, just don't do it because of their gender.
Correct. I was just getting at would readers generally think it's weird (or be offended) if a male hit a female in the chest...his way of fighting back against a women who is literally kicking his ass in a certain scene. I wouldn't think that would be a problem to most people but then that's just me. He's fighting for his life and trying to take her down, a fight to the death. If she didn't have any armor on her chest area anyway, would that make a difference? Kind of a weird thing to say or ask. I guess it's the equivalent of a female kicking a male between his legs if he was kicking her ass, a fight to the death. I don't think most readers would have a problem with that.
Right, don't kill a character because of their gender...because of who they are and the role they play in the story.
That's my point--it's not the equivalent. Kicking a male between his legs is supposed to cause debilitating pain, right? Punching a woman in the chest won't really hurt her that much more than punching a man in the chest, and I'm pretty sure that it will hurt her a good deal less than punching her in the abdomen. By "armor" I meant the body's natural armor--breastbone and all those ribs Admittedly, no one has ever hit me hard on these things I'm carrying around on my chest, but I've occasionally banged them into doors and such when I'm in a hurry, and they just don't hurt that much. So my point is that the question of whether it's offensive is not all that important--the reader's problem is likely to be that it's ineffective.
We've had another thread on this board at some point in the past in which a woman or maybe even women argued that it hurts women just as much (or almost as much? I can't remember) to be kicked in the crotch as it hurts men to be kicked there. So... I'm guessing some women have different pain receptors than I do, or something?
Huh. That's befuddling. Obviously I haven't experienced the man's pain receptors, but I've never regarded that as a particularly pain-prone part of my anatomy.
Only in the movies, or if they're a complete wuss. In the real world, if they're high on adrenaline and testosterone, it will typically just make them mad. Source: having been kicked there on a couple of occasions. Yeah, it's painful, but if the person who kicked you is still trying to hurt you, there are more important things to worry about than pain. I seem to remember it was recommended in the WWII unarmed combat instruction manual I read a few years ago, but only to make the enemy soldier bend forward so you could break their neck.
