Military Veterans here, what are some common misconceptions in fiction about the military?

Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by Oldmanofthemountain, May 7, 2021.

  1. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I believe he said "sewer holes." Almost as good a line as "unorganized, grab-asstic pieces of amphibian shit."
     
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  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Oh yeah, he was definitely a master of verbal ass-kickery and all kinds of bizarre sideways insults. :superlaugh::superlaugh::supergrin:
     
  3. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    "filthy sewers"

     
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  4. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    US Army vet, Cold war and desert storm.
    I will grant, some of the "Misconceptions" may be due to procedural difference between the branches of service, but some things do require commonality between branches.
    I can think of one area, where the errors abound, and drive me nuts. That is communications traffic, Especially "Over and out"!
    Reality is:
    Over = Done talking your turn.
    OUT = Done with the conversation.
    Break= more to come, need a pause.
     
  5. Lawless

    Lawless Active Member

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    Can you please explain why they say that? I have seen this in the books and I've never understood what it means.
     
  6. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Only a commissioned officer is addressed as Sir/Ma'am. An NCO, non-commisioned officer, is addressed by rank, and depending on branch of service there may be some flexibility there. Ex. US Army, a Sargeant, Staff Sargeant, or Sargeant first class may be addressed as Sarge. A first Sargeant, as Top. The NCOs handle the day-to-day activities of the unit, are are often doing the work beside the men. Officers are more concerned with planning and reports. Think blue collar vs white collar for the difference
     
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  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    What he said... also in most armies a sergeant will be a thoroughly professional soldier with years of experience, where as a lieutenant could be fresh out of university and not know his ass from a hole in the ground.

    I always remember seeing another lieutenant having an ill advised fit of "I'm an officer and you're just an enlisted man godammit" with the CSM which didn't end well for him by the time the OC had his say
     
  8. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Well made point.
    I will refer to the
    The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries
    2.A Sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Three most dangerous things in the army
    i) a Private with an idea
    ii) a Lieutenant with a map
    iii) A Colonel with a daughter

    I've mentioned before a Potential Officer Candidate who got his training platoon lost in a woodland that was about 3km square, he'd probably still be there now had I not sent an NCO to find him
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
  10. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I'm thinking Lt. Gorman from Aliens.

    Vasquez: "So how many combat drops have you done?"
    Gorman: "Counting this one? Three."
    Everybody: Ohhhh shit........
     
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  11. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    That reminded me of a time in W. Germany.
    A buddy of mine and I recorded a bullet ricochet from an old western on a Walkman, it was the mid 80s. We had the Walkman in a coat pocket, playing over a speaker, with a long lead. We saluted the new butter bar, and said,"Sniper check Sir." The look on his face when he heard the bullet sound, priceless.

    FYI custom is to not salute in the field, because of snipers.
     
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  12. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    So do bullets really make those crazy noises when they ricochet? I never hear that in actual shooting videos. Is it mostly just a film convention, like always having tire-squealing sounds even if a car rips out on sand or dirt?

    I also don't see massive muzzle flashes like you see in the movies. I think at most I've seen very small flashes.
     
  13. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    For a bullet to make that kind of sound it would have to strike something to bounce off of. Som film convention. The guys in folley are just being lazy when that happens, by grabbing a sound effect from the library.

    I also don't see massive muzzle flashes like you see in the movies. I think at most I've seen very small flashes.[/QUOTE]
    A muzzle flash is the result of unburnned propellant leaving the barrel while still burning. Many modern rifles have a flash suppressor on the barrel. Which defuse any flash. You are more likely to see a flash from a pistol, or black powder weapon because of this. Though at night a flash is more noticeable even from a suppressed weapon.
     
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  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I remember us being shot at by a PIRA sniper who was reputed to have a Barret 50, that thing made a hell of a flash and muzzle blast... which led to the stupid situation of us knowing exactly where he was but not being able to do a damn thing about it since the ROE forbade us to fire into areas of likely civilian occupation, which was effectively everywhere

    All I remember about the sound of those things was the supersonic crack of them going past us

    It was rumored at the time that he was an Irish American (this being well before 9/11 when the war on terror was not yet a thing, and a lot of Irish Americans thought the PIRA were the good guys) some even said he had forces training..I think the latter was bullshit because he wasn't a particularly good shot
     
  15. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I recently read that machine guns ammo used to contain tracers at certain intervals so you can see clearly where your shots are going, but it also told the enemy exactly where you were, so they discontinued that. They would also put a tracer near the end of a magazine so you know you're about to run out, but then so does the enemy...
     
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Tracer hasn't been discontinued - in a situation like that the enemy know where you are anyway... the reason they reduced the number of tracers per belt is to do with not burning out the barrel on the machine gun... they did discontinue the two reds together in air craft guns to signal low ammo when ammo counters in the cockpit became a thing

    coming back to ricochets the other thing is that to get a whining noise like the movies the bullet has to stay in one piece, a lot of times a round hitting something harder than it is will break up...those fragments make a kind of whispering sound as they scatter past you...i remember a corporal getting hit bad when a round hit the pig (amoured car) he was standing next to and he got cut all across the face by the spauling (tiny metal fragments) we were lucky as hell it missed his eyes
     
  17. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Muzzle flash will also depend on the load of the round. Modern military ammo is designed pretty specifically for the weapons that it's going in, but sometimes on a civilian range you'll see someone using ammo that was loaded for a long-barreled varmint pistol, for example, in a shorter-barreled revolver and end up with a huge cone of fire coming out the dangerous end.

    I've always wanted an Enforcer pistol, which is an M1 carbine chopped down to a 10 or 11 inch barrel. They're reported to be loud as hell and spit flames like a dragon. Utterly ridiculous but looks kind of fun.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Rather noticeable even with the standard muzzle break on the weapon.
    Stupid ROE is almost a trophy. I used it in a zombie story.
     
  19. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    When your sitting behind a well positioned MA duce, I wouldn't be to worried unless the bad guys were know to have RPGs. Tracers were about every 5th round, when i was in. They are a big help walking your fire into a target.

    For the enemy to know, a tracer is the end of a mag. They need to know your doctrine. Or have been in multiple fire fights with you. With proper support from your fire team, a mag change isn't a big deal.
     
  20. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    I'll take a siega 12ga. I'd I have to open fire, I want them to stay down.
    [​IMG]
     
  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    On the point of thread, ROE is another thing Hollywood never gets right, you see fictional soldiers armed to the teeth and spraying rounds all over the place at the slightest provocation, where as the reality in most western military operations the rules are tightly controlled

    When we were in Ulster we weren't allowed to use warriors (personnel carriers) because they were perceived as being too war like and the big poo bahs wanted to pretend we were peacekeeping... thus we had to use Humber Pigs and Ferrets which were about twenty years out of date. Like wise we could use land rovers but only if we took the pintel guns off... so since you can't easily man carry a fifty cal MG our firepower was reduced to the gimpy (GPMG) and we weren't allowed to use even that in urban operations. We also weren't allowed to use any kind of grenade or grenade launcher apart from smoke and an attachment on the batton round gun (rubber bullets) which could fire tear gas grenades.

    in terms of engagement as far as i recall we were allowed to engage an armed enemy with lethal force, using a direct fire weapon and aimed fire only, so long as he presented an immediate and lethal threat when we fired, ie he was firing at us, we couldn't shoot him just because he was carrying a weapon and had been firing at us, and we couldn't fire first. We also weren't allowed to return fire if the enemy was in areas of civilian occupation - such as sniping from a block of flats.
     
  22. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Got to love the political realities of service, NOT.
    Atleast you don't have to wear those red coats any more. I spent sometime with British units while at Graf. A bunch of good guys, and had a fun time with them at the beer tent after the competition. Good times.
     
  23. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    When were you in Ulster, big soft moose?
     
  24. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    in the early to mid nineties - we did more than one tour... we were all very very glad to see the back of that situation, trying to keep two sides who hate each other apart whilst getting bricked and bottled and occasionally shot at by both of them.

    Its another thing that Hollywood gets wrong..we weren't there as an army of occupation, but as a putative peacekeeping mission.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
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  25. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    I found that Black Hawk Down tends to be one of the most accurate movies because of its treatment of RoE. It uses it like a long running joke which is very close to reality. Service members are given a vague RoE pre-engagement, which leads to inconsistencies and confusion.

    That disarming crap was a problem during the Iraq and Afghanistan engagements for the US as well. They gave us weak humvees instead of more armored assualt vehicles as the main convoy and transport vehicles, which basically have paper for paneling. Mechs had to rivet and weld on large plates to make them relatively viable, but, naturally, that meant a huge drop in engine power to weight ratios. A lot of Marines died with that blunder.
     

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