1. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

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    Mysterious or Paranormal Hotspots in the US?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Adam Bolander, Jul 18, 2020.

    I've been getting suggestions that I shouldn't use skinwalkers in my story to avoid controversy via cultural appropriation. If that's the case, then I don't want to set it in Skinwalker Ranch either, so I don't have to explain why the people who turn into animals and live on Skinwalker Ranch aren't skinwalkers. Anyone know of any other paranormal and/monster sighting hotspots that could act as a secret wildlife preserve for cryptids?
     
  2. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Area 51.
     
  3. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

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    I feel like that'd be too cliched. Anything something weird happens, everyone points at Area 51.
     
  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Just make a place up that's like skin walker ranch and give it a different name...incidentally no one was saying you shouldn't have people who shape shift when influenced by wearing animal skins... the point was not to call them skin walkers if they weren't an accurate portrayal of the Navajo myth
     
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  5. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

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    I know that. But putting them in a place called Skinwalker Ranch but not making them Skinwalkers just feels like it complicates things too much. Imagine if The Wizard of Oz had Munchkin Town filled with little people, but they had to pause and explain that they're not munchkins, they're...gnomes or something. It would feel incredibly awkward, right? If I can't call them skinwalkers, then itd he better not to pur them in Skinwalker Ranch.
     
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  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Could you reconsider naming the ranch? Just call it something else that would give a similar impression? Skinshifter Ranch, or something like that? I don't mean that's a great choice, but just play around with the concept a bit? Till you come up with something that's unique to you, but still projects the same idea? It seems a shame to ditch an entire story over a technical detail like this. The idea for the story is excellent.
     
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Which is why i said make up a ranch based on on skinwalker ranch and call it something else... the thing with fiction is that its supposed to be predominantly made up

    Given that its a sanctuary area for cryptids you could call it 'sanctuary ranch' for example
     
  8. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    There's apparently a show about Skinwalker Ranch. I had never heard of it until recently here on the board (or skinwalkers either). I decided to google a bit and see if there's any controversy about the show, since I doubt it's made by Navajos, and it's broadcast to a national audience. I haven't found any mention of cultural appropriation in regards to it, but I did find this about the Wendigo:

    "The Wendigo may be a figure from American Indian mythology, but it belongs to all of humankind. Just as the vampire and werewolf do not belong exclusively to people of European descent and the Mummy doesn’t belong to Egyptians. You don’t have to be French to love the Phantom of the Opera. You don’t have to be of Afro-Caribbean descent to talk about, write about, or make movies about zombies."​

    I think it's like when a person becomes a celebrity, they pretty much give up normal expectations of privacy, and make themselves fair game. These monsters and magical beings take on a mythological life that's bigger than their country of origin. @big soft moose, have you never written about Ninjas or Samurai? What about James Clavell? Doesn't sound like an Asian name to me, and yet he wrote about Samurai. @jannert, are there no Native Americans in your story? You're not Native American, are you?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  10. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    As a regular and frequent reader of urban fantasy I can tell you there are plenty of white people writing about skinwalkers, not doing it accurately, and there's no great controversy and their stories are successful and well liked.
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I think there's a misunderstanding about what cultural appropriation is here

    The issue isn't white guy writes about Navajo myth... it's writer (regardless of their race) misrepresents Navajo myth

    Writer writes about skin walkers accurately after doing lots of research - not a problem
    Writer writes a fictional being loosely based on skin walkers but called something else - also not a problem

    but writer writes about a fictional set of characters calls them skin walkers but totally misrepresents what the skin walkers are... that's going to be a problem for some people (I wouldn't be offended by it myself particularly, but then I'm not navajo)

    You can of course write about anything you want, but when you take a facet of another culture and misrepresent it, some people are going to get upset... which today will make it harder to get published, and lead to bad reviews if you self publish
     
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  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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  13. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    There are a lot of paranormal hotspots out there, but they dont have as muc notoriety because they are not connected to big organizations... Like Area 51 is military and Skinwalker Ranch passed to a few corporations i er the years.

    My undergrad university is a "paranormal hotspot" that is on list for people looking for paranormal tours (the archivist i volunteered with gave paranormal tours on occasion).

    I think there is a lake somewhere west where people have spotted UFOs coming out of it over the years. Abandoned military bases, mountain bunkers, mines are also hotspots
    (Lol, i watched a lot of those paranormal shows on the History Channel way back before streaming)
     
  14. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Okay, thank you for explaining it rationally. I was half afraid I'd come in here and see the blue font. :whistle:

    My point would be look how much vampires and werewolves have changed. People don't need to conform to the way they were originally written, or the only vampire would be Eastern European and from hundreds of years ago, no sparkling going on.

    The weird thing is, if people all observe these restrictions, things like Skin Walkers and Wendigos etc will pretty much fade from public awareness (or just never be known at all). Don't they deserve to have stories and movies made about them? Or can that only be done by those big Navajo movie studios? Oh, wait...

    But I also understand, it's not you guys making up the rules. You're just passing them on.

    Edit—
    Thinking it through, I see where Moose and Jannert are coming from. The Navajo didn't invent the idea of shapeshifters, they just came up with their own particular version called a Skinwalker. The idea of shapeshifters is completely archetypal and belongs to the entire human race, has cropped up in all mythologies. Nobody has any right to get offended if you use shapeshifters in a story. Not that that will stop them o_O, but at least then there's no particular cultural group they can use for leverage.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  15. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    The state of West Virginia has multiple cryptid sightings and is considered a kind of paranormal hot spot. Though a whole state is too big to make a good setting. The TNT area of Point Pleasant is famous for the Mothman sightings, and there was a lot of strange stuff happening there during that time.
    The Pine Barrens of New Jersey are home to the famous New Jersey Devil

    By extension there are generic settings that could work as a base for a fictional setting. Abandoned hospitals and mental asylums are popular attractions for hauntings.

    There are likewise tons of cryptid sightings in woods across the country. I know if I were to have a cryptid preserve I would set it in a wood somewhere, because of just how prevalent the sightings are in woods or near wooded areas. Possibly in some sort of cave network located within the woods.
     
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  16. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    Slideshow of "mysterious" places in the US: https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-tips/offbeat/americas-most-mysterious-places?slide=2049192#2049192

    Some of my favorites from the list:
    Oregon Vortex
    Coral Castle
    Gilliland's Ranch (simple because it's another "ranch")

    Not from the list: Aurora, Texas (spaceship and humanoid person crashed into their water tower before the Wright brothers flew). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident

    Paranormal highway: https://www.gaia.com/article/37th-parallel-americas-paranormal-highway
     
  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Well, no, I'm not, and no, not in my first novel, other than a mention of a group of Blackfeet children the protagonist met when she was young. (And yes, I researched the situation with the help of a friend whose grandmother was Blackfeet and lived on the Blackfeet reservation in Browning, Montana. He often visited her there, and stayed with her for long periods of time.) But if I wrote Blackfeet into my story as major characters—which I intend to do in a further sequel—they will be realistic people in a realistic setting. I will do tons MORE research to ensure their culture is as accurately depicted as I can make it—for the time and place. (I write historical fiction, and I strive for accuracy.)

    However, there is no reason why an author can't turn a cultural myth into Fantasy if they want, as you pointed out. I only cautioned Adam to be aware that the Navajo people might feel upset if they think a specific aspect of their culture—one they still take seriously—is being misrepresented by an outsider. It would be easy to avoid that issue with a simple name change.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  18. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    See, there's a difference between Shogun and The Last Samurai.

    The former is more or less historical fiction. Names have been changed, but it's largely based on the true story of Will Adams, the first Englishman to reach Japan, and one of very few actual "Western samurai". Blackthorne (Adams) doesn't play the central role in the novel. It's about the rise of Toranaga (Tokugawa Ieyasu).

    The Last Samurai puts Tom Cruise in the role of the "white saviour", the Western guy who understands the Japanese way better than the Japanese themselves, and of course, the one who shows them how to die. The film may be based on real events, but it is a prime example of how to deal disrespectfully with a culture. Why would the Japanese need Cruise to show them how to be Japanese? They already had Saigo Takamori and the Shinsengumi, amongst others.
     
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  19. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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  20. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    I agree with all you wrote, especially with that the problem is not about white people misrepresenting Navajo myth (in their writing), but anyone misrepresenting their myths.

    I also want to add that from explaining how historically white people have ravaged indigenous people (in the other thread) doesn't follow that then it's not ok only for white people to misrepresent Navajo myth. It was just to explain how historically the unfair situation came to be today. Misrepresenting a myth of a population in danger of disappearing can be seen, especially by Navajo, as a further weakening of their knowledge and system of beliefs, no matter who does it. I wanted to clarify this point, because I thought it was obvious and I was surprised to see that it is not for some people. :superwink:
     
  21. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

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    So...two options I have come up with are thus:
    1. Keep them as skinwalkers, but make the villains skinwalkers as well. Then make it a point that the good guys are trying to break away from the legacy the others have created for their kind.

    2. According to THIS another word for skinwalkers is "limikkin". Maybe I could call them that instead since there seems to be less of a stigma on that word. I still don't think it sounds as cool as "skinwalker" though.
     
  22. KiraAnn

    KiraAnn Senior Member

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    The ability of Navajo skinwalkers to change into an animal form is not the main point of what they are. They are first and foremost evil witches with several magic powers, among which is the shape shifting ability.
     

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