1. vampie

    vampie New Member

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    Need for Feedback: Is this idea TOO weird?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by vampie, Mar 1, 2020.

    I have already started writing this and I'm not really planning to stop (though I am willing to change things up, depending on the feedback I receive), since for now, at least, I really have muse for this plot. The concept is a universe consisting of vampires only, but I have made some significant changes in the way these creatures are... built? For example, they are not immortal (in the story, they used to be immortal until up a few centuries ago, when viruses started appearing, their air started to get polluted, etc), they are fertile (only under certain circumstances) and they can go out during the day as long as it is not sunny or they are carrying a sun umprella (though some of them have special abilities, and one of them is being able to stay under the sun as long as you like with no harm). Also, most of the plot revolves around the life of students and teacher of the only existing university in their world.

    Is this too peculiar for pretty much any audience except for myself or is there hope anyone would ever be interested in this? Thank you all in advance, I'll be happy to read your comments.
     
  2. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

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    I'd read it.

    I like the idea of a "new" type of vampire. With regards to students/teachers, that aspect reminds me of a television show but I can't remember which one.....I'd say "Legencies" but I think older.....

    I also like the idea of fertile vampires that can have children. You could play around with the abilities that these kids possess....maybe they don't need to breathe or don't need blood to live...? Could make for an interesting development if they become space faring explorers for example.
     
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  3. Dogberry's Watch

    Dogberry's Watch Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Contest Winner 2022

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    My only question is what's the point if there are no humans for the vampires to feed?

    That might sound harsh, but unless you're going for a happier story about vampires living life the way humans tend to, the horror aspect is missing.

    Yes, it could be there with the virus aspect, but vampires aren't ... Sparkly. A majority of readers expect vampires to be horror creatures.

    I mean, on the flip side it's a good concept for going away from vampire tropes, but again, how do they feed? What's the drive for their hunger if it isn't blood?
     
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  4. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

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    The way I see it, your setting and whatever type of being your characters happen to be are to be considered storytelling tools. Of course, some degree of whimsy is permitted when creating a world, but ultimately what really matters is how you use it all to tell a good story.

    Pretty much everything you mentioned is okay, as long as you have a story to tell and your setting plays a valid part in telling it. Do you need everyone to be vampires in order to tell your story? Can it be told as well or better if you don't make them vampires? If it doesn't matter - if it would work just as well if they were humans or elves or whatever - then you've put a lot of effort into creating a setting that doesn't serve a narrative purpose. Or, put another way, you would have a setting that you're not making proper use of.

    Of course there's nothing wrong with with creating a whole vampire society because you happen to like vampires and are writing for people who like them as well. And weird, outlandish concepts aren't in themselves a bad idea. But the more your story justifies those decisions, the easier they will be for the reader to accept.
     
  5. vampie

    vampie New Member

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    First of all, thank you for the feedback! Honestly, I'm glad to not be the only one who's had this idea, haha! I'd watch that television show.

    As far the blood issue, the current generation of vampires I am mostly dealing with is not dependent on blood to survive. They do consume it, but for extra strength or energy or just because they like it (they still partially need it because it's in their DNA; their ancestors did need it to survive). Maybe the future generation could have no reason to want to drink it! I'll also definitely use your idea about breathing, though for now at least it would be a special ability for a selected few; the current vampire generation needs to breathe, amongst everything else.
     
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  6. vampie

    vampie New Member

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    Thank you for your comment! Honestly, that is a very good question. My vampires feed on the blood of animals, which is no longer (was for their ancestors) crucial for their survival, it is just a part of their diet that is important and gives extra strength/energy. Guess I'd have a lot of explaining to do, as far as their universe and organisms.

    I have really not considered the horror aspect at all, not until now, at least. Though it is not necessary for the plot to unfold (the main genre would be romance/drama), maybe it would be a good idea to include some. As you suggested, the horror aspect could have to do with the viruses. I was actually considering an outbreak, but only after I have gotten farther into the main aspects of the story!
     
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  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I'm a little confused. What is the point of them being vampires if they don't need to drink blood, there aren't any humans around, they aren't immortal, don't need to only come out at night, etc?

    I think if I was a fan of vampire stories (which I'm not, really) I would feel a bit dumped if I realised, after starting to read a vampire story, that none of the usual vampire issues matter at all in this one.

    Maybe you could change them to a different creature ...one you invented yourself? With a different name?

    And you'll need some sort of story conflict to make this work. Just creating the world isn't enough. Stuff then has to happen. Stuff has to go wrong. Very wrong. If you're just creating a character-driven plot centred around a university and students where vampires are the only humanistic life forms ...they don't really need to be vampires, do they?
     
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  8. vampie

    vampie New Member

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    Thank you for the feedback, first of all! Honestly, I am fully aware this new universe of supernatural beings will be weird by definition. What I want to avoid is making it too weird, too far from being something that the audience can relate to. They might not be human, but they are not the typical bloodthirsty monsters either; each character represents a different complex personality, has their own goal, their own common everyday problems etc. I'm pretty much trying to show their human side, how in a world where it's only them and no other being, they'd act just like us with a few differences that derive from their biological structure, that's why I chose to not include any humans or any other creatures.
     
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  9. Steve Rivers

    Steve Rivers Contributor Contributor

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    I'd say, look up some of the blurbs for some of the movies of the eighties to make yourself feel better.

    A teenage boy has an unusually close relationship with an old man in the neighborhood. After the old man invents a time-travelling device out of a car, and due to a betrayal over nuclear plutonium, the boy gets sent back in time where he accidentally makes his mom fall in love with him. He is then forced into going on a date with her. He has to use the date to re-direct her passion towards his father otherwise he will stop existing.

    When you put most things up against that, everything else seems normal! :D hehe
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  10. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    OK, but then they're basically human. I'm not sure I see the point.

    If they're just like us, then it might as well be as story about us.
     
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  11. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    I agree with the idea that if there are no humans, why even make them vampires? I don't read a whole lot of vampire fiction, but it seems to me that it is that power difference between humans and vampires that people are really a fan of.

    In classic horror, it's the vampires ability to be near unstoppable, but with a few key weaknesses the heroes could exploit.

    In the more modern romance side, it's navigating that power imbalance in the relationship. With the vampire having to hold back on their own desires for the sake of the love interest. And the love interest having to learn to trust someone that could easily kill them if they choose.

    Now this is your story, and it can be hard to know if something is going to work or not based off a short blurb, but I'm wondering if it could work in your story if the virus you mentioned might actually be turning some of the newest generation into humans. Who then have to hide the fact that they don't have any vampire traits for fear of what might happen if it comes out. Kind of like a reverse of the standard paranormal setup where the vampires are hiding their identity in a human world.

    That's probably not the type of story you want to write, it's just something I thought would be interesting based off of your world setup.
     
  12. vampie

    vampie New Member

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    Thank you so much for the feedback! That's actually an AMAZING idea over here. Would it be fine with you if I did use it? I am seriously thinking about it.
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    the whole virus thing is a little bit like Hepatitis V in True Blood... I'm not saying that's a reason not to do it, but be careful not to become an imitation
     
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  14. vampie

    vampie New Member

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    I honestly had no idea. Thank you for letting me know!
     
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  15. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much about that. If they have thoughts, feelings and relationships, then people can relate to them. Your characters drinking blood, having fangs and the ability to turn into bats or whatever isn't going to change that. It's hard to make characters so inhuman that people can't see themselves in them anymore.

    It's an interesting idea. Though, I think what you should be going for is a sort of juxtaposition between their human and non-human aspects. That is to say, you want them to be human enough to be relatable and likable, yet strange enough that the reader will want to understand them better. That's generally the best approach for this sort of "pseudo-human" character, I think.

    It's sort of like a narrative version of the Uncanny Valley effect: Non-human traits will emphasize the human ones up to a certain point, where the human traits will instead emphasize the non-human ones. You want to aim for the former.

    Well, all stories are stories about us, really. They don't literally need to feature humans in order to say something about the human condition: The "humans" can be vampires or robots or aliens or whatever.

    Consider: Perhaps the fact that they are basically just humans is the point? Like, as a statement about what makes us human in the first place? That perhaps stuff like drinking blood or being terminally sensitive to sunlight or not having a pulse are not very good disqualifiers for being considered human. Which, in turn, raises the question of what makes a vampire not human, if it isn't any of the typical superficial trappings.

    I'm going to be the contrarian here and say that the lack of humans is pretty much the one thing I actually find interesting about this concept: I don't think I've ever seen a story really do that before. That is, if nothing else, a very novel idea. You guys really think it would be better if Vampie made it just another run-of-the-mill vampire story?

    As for the power imbalance thing, I think it may be sort of presumptuous to suggest that this specifically is what people in general like about them - I don't think it's anywhere near that simple. If anything, I suspect it's a highly subjective question and you may get as many answers as there are vampire fans.

    Really, the vampire has gone through so many interpretations that it basically no longer has a very solid definition: Vampires are more like a very nebulous and modular collection of traits, motifs and aesthetics. At this point you can practically use them for anything you want in any way you want.

    Never been a fan of that, personally. The weaknesses, I mean. It always struck me as very contrived for these supernatural apex-predators to have such convenient weaknesses just so that regular people have a fighting chance against them. Sometimes a story will use it in an interesting a creative way, but the classical approach kinda feels like wishful thinking included mainly to make us mortals feel better about ourselves.

    It's like Superman's weakness to kryptonite: You only need something like that when you've messed up the power dynamics of your story to the point where you can no longer have sensible conflicts.
     
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  16. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    It is good to define limits in your story. Just be careful not to paint yourself into a corner.

    It is also good to develop your creatures. They certainly seem unique. All apart from the name vampire.

    If you really feel that they are unique why call them vampires? The word vampire is such a definitive word. We all have an idea of what a vampire is. If you are making your own vampires you risk having to redefine our understanding of them and that is a tough gig.

    Thing is if you called them, I don't know 'bla bla bla' (sorry could not resist Hotel T reference) or in fact an unknown word they would be somewhat more mysterious.

    Sounds pretty good to me.
     
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  17. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    Of course you can use it if you want. I don't have much interest in writing vampire fiction, so I don't intend to use it.
     
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  18. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

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    I *think* the television program I am referring to is....."The Vampire Diaries" but I'm not positive. I've never seen the show, only heard/read about it in passing.

    I'd like to offer a bit of a contrary view. The traditional vampire story that has super-human vampires stalking people and drinking their blood has been done to death in my opinion between ballets (Dracula), books (Bram Stroker, Ann Rice, Larry Corriea), tv shows (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Vampire Diaries, Legencies), movies (Dracula Untold, Interview with the Vampire, Blade) and so on and on.

    The vampire as a sensual creature that normal humans pursue and fall in love with is newer and the only writer I can think of is Stephanie Meyers with "Twilight" but this popular series means imitations will pop up....they might even be better than "Twilight" but because they're in the shadow of Twilight, they will be labeled as imitations by some people.

    Why not something different? This *might* upset people who want the "traditional" vampire story but there's already plenty of that genre out there.

    The idea that I threw out earlier, the vampire as explorer in outer space....imagine the potential if the undead explored the universe! They wouldn't need oxygen on the ship or on the planets they explored and I'm sure their traditional abilities would make it possible to explore "difficult" places for normal humans to explore. Or the vampire could "walk" on the ocean floor and harvest ship wrecks of treasure like artifacts and gold or jewels. Discover new life forms and new species of fish or sharks.....

    Up to you if you write the "traditional" story or take a different tack. I personally want to read something different so that's why I like your concept and the new directions it can take.

    Whatever you decide, let us know when you publish! I'll get a copy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
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  19. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    How about the story of a poor vampire struggling to run his business in a tough economic climate, and beset with late-paying customers, supply chain problems and having to deal with a credit crunch?
     
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  20. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

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    He's right, you know.

    Make it an homage instead.
     
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  21. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

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    Two other writers that I forgot about are:

    Laurel K. Hamilition (Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter) and Christopher Farnsworth (The President's Vampire).


    If I remember the Anita Blake series correctly, vampires and humans co-exist uneasily and some humans willingly donate blood to vampires in exchange for gifts and the favors of certain vampires. There are some vampires that break the truce and kill humans, which is when the local police department calls in Anita Blake specifically to hunt those vampires and stake them (kill them).

    The President's Vampire, the concept is that a vampire is forced to swear an oath to serve the office of the President of the United States of America and his/her designates. Nathaniel Cade is the name of the vampire. Cade is usually used to protect the USA from otherworldly threats.


    I wanted to say one of the newer takes on the vampire stories is Larry Correia's short story, "Force Multiplier" which can be found in "Target Rich Environment: Vol. One." It originally appeared in "V Wars: Blood and Wars" edited by Jonathan Maberry. This is pretty much the only time I have seen vampires used as a military force.

    In the graphic novel department, there is "American Vampire" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Vampire
     
  22. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

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    This can work. What good does a vampire have - or can get - that other vampires or people will pay money for?


    Considering how long vampires live, what if the main character runs a pawn shop that deals in curios like religious artifacts that disappeared years and years ago? If a wagon train was heading to California and got trapped in a mudslide or a flood and disappeared along with the cargo? Our vampire knows the route that the wagon train took, has the ability of superhuman senses and knows there is a treasure on the wagon that's worth a fortune to someone? He can go looking for the cargo, bring it back and find out the customer can't pay.


    "We had a deal!" he protested weakly.

    "We did, but my circumstances have changed. I still need this artifact and it's no good to you." the thin human in the shabby clothing spoke bluntly to the vampire proprietor of Edgar's Curios & Artifacts.

    The vampire looked at the human who met his gaze squarely. He'd travelled miles and miles and spent weeks exploring the region before he found the long-lost wagon train with its precious cargo and now the damned human didn't, no, he corrected himself, COULDN'T even pay for it!! Some days it really wasn't worth opening Edgar's for business.

    "You are correct....this artifact is of no use to me." the vampire turned the full force of his hypogenic gaze on the human. "But.....surely another human could make use of it....perhaps even your competitor....?"

    "Damn you!!" the thin human appeared to swell with barely suppressed anger.

    This must be more important than I initially thought for this puny human to risk the wrath of a full bloodied vampire.


    And so on...you can develop that further. Perhaps it's a treasure that legally belongs to that sect of humans or a religious icon that means a lot to that congregation (Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, etc, etc...). How does the vampire get paid? What does the human have to give up - what is he willing to give up in exchange for this item? Do other people want this item, can Edgar's Curios & Artifacts cause a bidding war and jack up the price?
     
  23. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    I was thinking a 7-11.
     
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  24. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    I tend to think there is an audience for everything, even if it's only a small one. I think most care less about what you do and more about how you present it. Viruses morphing a race has been done before in a few vampire/werewolves movies I've watched so what can you add to make it unique? In reality, I've heard of a virus killing of a species but never transforming them. I know this is fiction and maybe set in another world and I know a virus has the ability to change but not transform a species and if it does it's not usually for the better. I've heard of these things causing deformed off spring and sickness. You can get carries of these diseases but they remain mostly unaffected. It does need to be some what realistic.

    I am someone who prefers the traditional vampires as appose to spin offs. And this story wouldn't interest me, but I think it would other people. Ideas are cheap. Just concentrate on the execution.
     
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  25. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

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