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  1. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    No plot, No Narrative, No Nuttin

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Greg904213, Feb 26, 2019.

    I have worked the last couple of years ghostwriting for platforms like Textbroker and Upwork. The greatest part was the research and finding answers.

    I think I am ready to begin a novel. The problem, I have no idea for a plot or even a story. Forget a title.

    I do know the focus needs to be technology-based and sometime in the future. Maybe the past or present, if I can develop a credible story. Definitely tech though. I may start with Moore's Law.

    I have already started to collect research. Not sure where it should take me though.

    How do I go about finding a plot and developing the narrative with just research?
    Should I start character development or is that too early?
     
  2. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    Sure, go ahead with character development. The plot can be based on a desire of the character and what it takes for them to achieve that desire.
     
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  3. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    That is a good idea. However, what about multiple main characters? sub characters? families? Friends? Dictators? Kings?

    The more I think about this, the more I am leaning to a society. Not idealistic or dystopian. Something different. Unique.

    I expect to collect a lot of research before I write a word. Multiple characters, sub characters and plot lines is what I am after.

    I think.
     
  4. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    All that really matters is the story. I would be careful about your plan "to collect a lot of research before I write one word." Everyone works differently and some people put in a lot of planning, but while you're a new writer I'm not sure how good it is to try and do everything but write. Why not write a little and get a feel for it? For me, it's usually through the actual writing that the best ideas come to me.
     
  5. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    I am too busy ghostwriting for other platforms and trying to make money.

    I hope ideas come to me through the research
     
  6. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    Everyone is different so you need to find your own method but suggesting something I do in this circumstance wont hurt.
    With so little plot it would be hard to work on a character and I would suggest leaving the research for now. It may bog you down or you could do a ton of research then change your idea and you've wasted time (which for most people is precious, we only get a few hours a day to write).

    I would sit down and look at PLOT, CHARACTER and SETTING. Then brain storm areas of conflict. Think out side the box and just brain storm random ideas. How can these three go against each other? Let a story develop and keep thinking about potential goals for the character and how things can be put in their way.
    I'm not into technology so I do something separate.

    Each year Gladiator games are being held in a futuristic world but only men are allowed to compete and who will go from each city is randomly selected, no excuses. Your main characters mentally disabled brother is called up and there's no other males in the family that could go instead. You main character is a female. She goes in her brothers place and must hide that she is female. Women can be killed in this world for impersonating men, who are maybe seen a Superior. (Now keep building the conflict) Her cousin from another city is there at Boot Camp (a kind of training for the battles) She realizes at some point she'll have to kill her own cousin (who doesn't recognize her because how different she looks or because they haven't seen each other in years. (this provides some internal conflict) Maybe she has a physical weakness, like Achilles heel. Arthritis so she struggles to hold a sword, partial blindness that means she's sensitive to sunlight. The arena is a big open place and in the height of summer. Her religion does not permit her to kill others.

    Just keep building it. If you brain-storm you'll find one idea in that which will feel "right". You could do robots instead of humans or something.
     
  7. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    Time to write is all I do have. No left leg and retired.

    You have come up with a good idea, but it is not me. I know technology. I worked in the industry for 20 years, that is what I want to write about.
     
  8. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    Sorry, the idea wasn't for you too use, it was just an example of how you can build on a basic idea that just popped into your head.

    Technology is awesome to write about.
     
  9. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    It seems you don't want to invest in the time to write or plan a novel (you said so yourself, that you're too busy doing ghostwriting and making money). That's fair enough. But then I don't think writing a novel is a worthwhile pursuit for you. Why do you want to write one? Are you ghostwriting a novel and asking us to help you structure it because you took a job you're not sure how to complete?

    Stories don't come through research. Ideas, certainly, but crafting them into a full story takes time and is a whole other skill. If you approach it like you do non-fiction, I don't think you'd get very fair. Fiction is all about making things up - you take a fact from the real world and you spin it off into multiple possibilities that, while logical, may never happen in the real world.

    If you want to write tech, hard sci-fi might be an interesting genre for you as that genre concerns itself with getting the science highly accurate and all fictional possibilities are strongly based on real-world science. I neither read nor write hard sci-fi so I can't help you, but my advice would be find a novel in the hard sci-fi genre and get reading. You learn by reading and if you want to write a novel in a particular genre, there's no better "advice" or teacher than reading actual published books to see how it's done.

    Beware you don't end up with soft sci-fi if you're highly into tech and science. Hard sci-fi is the one that is heavy on the science.
     
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  10. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    @Mckk is right. Read, read, read. If you've already done so, and really do just need help getting started, you can try what I do. I start with concept. The "wouldn't it be neat if..." technique. I would suggest you pick something that fascinates you personally, a new gadget for instance, something currently out of reach for the general public, and try to imagine what it will be like when they're a dime a dozen some day. How would that technology change the daily life of an ordinary person? That takes us right into character. Who is that person? Why do we care about them and what do they want? Where do they live? Who do they love? There are infinite handy little guides to conflict and climax and resolution all over the internet if you need help from there.

    Let's climb another tree. You've been at this for twenty years, so think about a specific evolution you've observed over the years. Where do you see it going over the next twenty years? Is there a frightening direction in which that evolution could move? Could it be weaponized or used as a means for control over society? Who would fight back? How would they maintain or regain their freedom? How would they save themselves/their family/the world?

    There are a thousand ways to come up with a story, but for me, it almost always starts with that "what if?" Sometimes that emerges from a meditation on the nature of a new technology or social trend, sometimes it's a juxtaposition of seemingly unrelated concepts that I found a way to combine. Sometimes it's just a scenario I'd like to see play out around a character, but let's stick to the first two for now. Start with a tech and ask yourself questions about it until something occurs to you that might be worth telling a story about. Good luck. Hope that helps.
     
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  11. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    I always start with a character and fill in the blank: "There's this guy who...." Or, "There are these people who...." Then what happens to them?
    Sometimes I'll ask "What does he want?" but that usually comes simultaneously with either the character or with "What happens to them?"
     
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  12. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    I was not aware there is only one correct way to start a novel.
     
  13. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    These thoughts from Rzero are excellent. But you can go even further. Why not take the tech you know and think 'what can go wrong with it?' By 'go wrong,' I mean a glitch, not the sort of end-game scenario Rzero is proposing here (which is also really a good idea, too.) The tech glitches—and suddenly it doesn't work at all, or goes wonky. Keep going with that. If such and such goes wrong, what happens next? Who is affected? What do they do? What do they do if they understand the tech and are responsible for making it work? What do they do if they don't understand the tech at all, but are affected by it?

    Lots of great sci-fi stories start with this premise. A compelling story has to have something 'go wrong' in it, so things can eventually either be put right or spin out of control into something else. So start with what could go wrong with the tech you know. I'm sure you can concoct a great story with that.

    It sometimes helps if you have a ticking clock as well. These tech problems have to be solved by a certain time ...or else. This, again, is a commonly-used (but very effective) trick to raise suspense.

    I suspect, from what you've told us, that you intend to write a 'plot first' story. In other words, you think up what might happen, then concoct characters to carry the plot, so you can use your tech knowledge as a foundation for your story.

    However, there is nothing stopping you from writing an entirely different story! In fact, you could decide to write something that is totally unconnected with the tech you are familiar with. You can write anything you want.

    You might have fun letting go a bit more, and just letting your imagination take you someplace else altogether. Instead of tech, you could maybe concentrate on something like humanitarian aid work as a focus for your story. Or exploring the wilderness. Or living in a different time period. As a writer, the world is yours to create. So don't be afraid to step away from your ghostwriting altogether, into a completely different realm. Whatever takes your fancy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  14. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    No one is saying that. We're saying you need to read in the genre you want to write in, in order to learn how it's done, especially since you've not written fiction before. We're telling you there are certain questions you could ask to get ideas flowing - these are tips that have worked for various people before and they may work for you too. We're also telling you researching is not the same as building a story - research can inspire, but it's the questions that will get a story growing.

    If you're not interested in our suggestions, then what are you really asking for?
     
  15. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    What I am really asking for is exactly what I am finding, direction. It is easy to say I have an idea, but how does a person formulate ideas into a writable story. That is what I do not know. I didn't know the questions to ask.
    I started with the research because that is the only place I knew to start.
     
  16. Glen Barrington

    Glen Barrington Senior Member

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    This helps me. I do all this before I create characters, or formally develop a plot:
    • I have an idea: Example - There are magic beans that grow so tall, it seems the stalks grow up into the sky.
    • Then I brainstorm additional ideas based on it
    • Who is likely to have such beans (list all sorts of people - Farmers, agri-scientists, corporate spies, smugglers, you name them.)
    • What is each of them likely to DO with such beans? (Grow them, clone them, sell them, you name it)
    • Why would they want to do that? (curiosity, get rich, feed the world, you name it)
    • What plans and tools would they use to realize their goal?
    • What and who would want to prevent them from doing what they want to do? (Big corporations, religion, left/right wing nuts, environmentalists, governments, you name them)
    • Why would they want to do that? (an act of faith, fear, greed, rite of passage, you name it.)
    • Figure out if the various types of people FEEL like protagonists or antagonists to you. kind of sort them out as to how YOU feel.
    • What plans and tools would they use to prevent those previously mentioned goals from happening.
    • What kind of world or environment is all this likely to happen?
    I like to do this via brainstorming using mindmap software. I'm currently using Scapple ($15 USD), but I am also experimenting with the free software called FreePlane, and xMind 8. Once I've got all this down in the mind map, I then start playing with more solid ideas by seeing which of the stuff I've done above seem to fit together the best. Then when I have a germ of a plot, I do a more directed research. (This is not to say your current research isn't useful, especially if you need generic info)

    Hope this helps, good luck
     
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  17. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    No probs and thanks for the clarification. The questions posed by a few responses above are a good place to start. Ultimately, your story should answer a question. To give a simple example, let's say, Lion King.

    1. How will Simba become king? (Protagonist. He's the rightful king and will inherit the throne)
    2. What's stopping him? (Scar - antagonist)
    3. How's Scar going to stop him? (Murder Mufsasa and Simba both, leaving Scar as the sole male in the pride and therefore the next in line as king)
    4. How will Simba overcome this? (He escapes and finds a few friends who enable him to grow up without the threat of Scar)
    5. What must Simba do to reclaim the throne? (Return to the Pridelands and confront Scar)
    6. What's stopping him? (Guilt over his dad's death)
    7. What pushes Simba to go back? (He realises his responsibility over his land and his subjects through the help of the baboon and Mufasa's spirit)
    8. How does Simba ultimately overcome his guilt, which enables him to fight Scar? (Simba finds out the truth about Mufasa's death - it was Scar's fault, not Simba's)
    9. What's the result? (Simba becomes king - this answers the very first question, the main story question)

    And you see how the subplot regarding the guilt intertwines with the wider main plot, the taking of the throne. Ultimately there're two stories, one external (throne) and one internal (Simba's guilt).

    So you have to start with a possibility, a question, perhaps an event. And then you start speculating, as others have suggested. Ask more questions: what if? What if this happened? What if that didn't happen? What problem would result from this? How would your character resolve this?

    It's fiction. You have to make it up :) but usually it's just about going from one logical conclusion to the next most logical conclusion. What would happen if...?

    What would happen if Simba had died the day Scar sent the hyenas after him?
    What would happen if Hitler had won rather than lost in WWII?
    What would happen if our phones were implanted into our hands and there's no way of removing or disabling the device?
    What would happen if you had made different choices during your life?

    The stories would be quite different. Explore the possibilities. Jolt it down, figure out the kinks. This is why some people plot before they write. Still others make it up as they go along, finding the next most logical outcome and see what happens from there. Both have their merits. But you have to just start exploring, either way.

    For example, you also see a lot of movies about robots falling in love with humans - AI becoming more intelligent and capable of reason leads to speculations about what makes the human mind, and thus what would happen in real life if... Ex-Machina, Her, and I, Robert are all such films exploring this possibility. And what's that one about clones? The Island, and is the one about that boy called AI (Artificial Intelligence) I think?

    The Japanese classic Ghost in the Shell explores the idea of immortality and the soul through AI. What does it mean to be alive? The film's answer was: the ability to reproduce. So when Major's AI merged with another cyborg's, together they created a new, never-before-seen version of AI - isn't that the definition of reproduction?

    The simple answer to: How do you write a story? is simply: Make it up. Think of a scenario and an interesting question, now apply it to real life - what happens? Now follow that train of thought until you have enough of a skeleton to start building.
     
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  18. Greg904213

    Greg904213 New Member

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    This is great!! Now that everyone knows from winc I cometh. What about this:

    A new category: Tech-Fiction. Not based on science but technology.

    The premise is Moore's Law; Intel chairman said, the size of transistors on a single sheet of silicon will double every two years. What if that law was a lot shorter. A lot shorter!!! Where would current world trends be in 50, 100 years (I don't think the time in the future is important, only that it is in the future) Technology is being created so fast, a single person or organization cannot control it. or keep up with it.
    Technology has gotten out of control!!!
    Where would these current trends be?
    • War, five versions from an F-35. The M-27, Hypersonic, laser-based? Where is the planetary power? Is it still with the United States? Are there any guns and what type? How powerful are laser weapons and did I give my 5-year-old a laser weapon for Christmas?
    • Politics, The Green New Deal is implemented over a longer period of time, 30 years. Smart buildings record everything a person does in life. Are implants put in at birth? or in prison? Are there politicians? Who runs the world? Is it me?
    • Genetics, how far have designer babies gone? Have world powers developed a super race and no one is being told? Is the Third Reich being reimagined? Has the world population ballooned to 23 billion?
    • Space, the final frontier. Have we started to colonize the moon? Have we created a new space body circling the earth? Is Mars still in the equation or was it destroyed by greed?
    • Technology, where is cognitive computing in the big scheme of things? Has AI accomplished what everyone has predicted or feared?
    • Society, what are humans like? Are they the same, better, improved? Are world countries still at other's others throats/ Are there even countries?
    Questions:

    The only way I can attempt to weave all this stuff together is to create another society, maybe a rebel force against the world.
    Do I need to try and answer all the above questions?
    Should I have a central character that knows everything? or a central character that knows nothing and discoveries the meaning of life at the end of the story?
    How many characters? Should I decide upfront or let the story and circumstances tell me?
    Hero or Heroine?

    I know this is a lot of info and questions, but you guys have forced me into this deep dark hole!!! I need to dig myself out.

    Again, direction??
     
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  19. Glen Barrington

    Glen Barrington Senior Member

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    I think you want to avoid that 'fake textbook' feel at all costs. I've read (or, TRIED to read) Political "thrillers" that don't tell a story, just near future history, and they are boring as all hell. If you want people to not only read your stuff but maybe tell others about it, you need someone the readers can relate to, and then try to use that character to illustrate your points via a plot. I would refer you to the Author Christopher Nuttall and his "The Empire Corps" series.

    Chris has rather conservative views and he presents his beliefs in a very compelling manner through the use of a Science Fiction story. I'm not mentioning him because I'm promoting his views, but because he has created a work that manages to get his POV across in an engaging way. (Also, the volume of his high-quality output is amazing! I don't think he ever takes a day off!)
     
  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I like all these ideas, and each one could be a story in itself. Maybe pick one (or two) of these scenarios, then throw a few people into the mix. Example: space, the final frontier. We have started to colonise the moon. (So who is 'we?' You need a few characters, don't you? Are they on the moon, going to the moon, staying behind, writing the technology, building the technology? All of these? Where do these characters come from? What are the problems they are absolutely going to have? And keep going...)

    I do believe authors need to find their own stories, create their own situations and build their own characters. We've given you a fair amount of ideas and approaches to work with. So go to it, and have fun! I can honestly say that writing a novel was the most fun I've ever had sitting down. And nobody knew I was even writing it, till I was at least halfway through, and 'fessed up. The story had flaws (which I think I've corrected during the edits) but the story concepts were all my own.

    It's like the difference between riding a bike with training wheels, and riding one without. (Except there is no risk of injury if you're writing.) If you're not careful, however, you can get dependent on training wheels and never outgrow them. Don't keep asking other people for ideas. Get in the habit of formulating your own. You CAN do it! :)
     
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  21. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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  22. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Your characters will point you their plot. You just need to know them well.

    Motivations?
    Needs?
    Character flaws?
    Weaknesses?
    Secrets?
     
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  23. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    This is why I suggested just writing, giving it a shot. The OP seems to know enough about what he wants to write. But it's the characters we create that have the stories.
     
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  24. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    1. Exactly the same way a person formulates (=writes) a story.

    It is a process of creating, not a process of formulating.

    2. Then you don't know how to write a story.

    3. Start with humans.

    Write what you know emotionally.
    - What have you experienced (emotionally) in your life? Transform it to story.
    - What are your needs, wants, fears, regrets, hopes...
    - What do you want to say?
     
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  25. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I agree, especially with that last question. What do you want to say? If the OP can answer that one, he'll be on his way.

    The reason this question is important is that the answer will shape the way your story gets formed. If you want to say that colonising the moon is an excellent idea, and will offer humans the key to saving Earth and moving onward—that will make one story. If you want to say that colonising the moon is a huge mistake and diverts resources away from the problems we really need to solve here on earth—that will make an entirely different story.

    If you want to say love makes the world go around and everybody should look for it until they find it, that will make one kind of story. If you want to say that hunting for love is a huge waste of time, because it either finds you or it doesn't, that makes another kind of story. If you want to say that love is highly overrated and never lasts, that makes yet another kind of story.

    Figure out what you want to say about whatever topic you choose to write about. That will help to direct you.
     

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