Not sure if this is wrong.

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by GuardianWynn, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    I am a failure!!!!

    Question. Does it help the cause to know that the Valorie's foster parents are politicians and that earlier this chapter would have brought that to attention?
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I think that your issue in this thread is with how to combine sentences--what to do with commas, semicolons, etc.

    Making minimal changes, I think this would be clearer as

    Though Valorie doubted the sincerity of her parents. Insincerity was the one part of the politician stigma she felt did in fact apply to them.

    Or

    Though Valorie doubted the sincerity of her parents. That was the one part of the politician stigma she felt did in fact apply to them.

    Or

    Though Valorie doubted the sincerity of her parents; that was the one part of the politician stigma she felt did in fact apply to them.
     
  3. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    I like your advice, but could you go into a bit more detail on what your saying my issue is?

    I like your opinion, but I don't fully understand it.
     
  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not good at formally discussing grammar; my grammar comes from reading a bazillion books rather than properly mastering the terminology. But I'll give it a try.

    Your original sentence is:

    Though, Valorie doubted the sincerity of her parents, it was the one part of the politician stigma she felt did in fact apply to them.

    I cut out the detail and make it

    Though, blah, something that expands on blah.

    But that's not the way that "Though" is usually used. "Though" is usually used without a comma, in a structure like:

    Though blah, something that contradicts or reduces blah.

    For example:

    Though Jane was hungry, she ate nothing.

    This wouldn't be correct if it were instead:

    Though, Jane was hungry, she ate a lot.

    That would take something other than "though", such as "however":

    However, Jane was hungry. She ate a lot.

    You notice that I broke up the two sentences. I could have also cut them up with a semicolon:

    However, Jane was hungry; she ate a lot.

    I don't have to do that with the "though".

    But after all that explaining, I can't tell you WHY it works that way. All I can do is say that it does.
     
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  5. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    You're awesome!!!!
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    @GuardianWynn, I came back to this. I agree with what I said before, but I imply that it's the only use of "though".

    Your use of "though" with a comma is sometimes done:

    Though, something that contradicts or reduces a blah from a previous sentence.

    Example:

    Jane ate very little. Though, she was grateful for the offer of food.

    I see it as very informal and actually incorrect, but it would have been moderately clear, and probably acceptable in dialogue or a quite chatty narrative, without the extra sentence. I recommend against it, but without the extra sentence it would have been in the realm of a style decision.

    If I wanted the "though" used more or less this way, I'd lose the comma and make the sentence much more conventional, though still a tiny bit chatty:

    Jane ate very little. Though she was grateful for the offer of food.

    The problem with the extra sentence is that two sentences should not be combined with a comma:

    Sentence, sentence.

    When you split sentences, you need to use something else--actually split them with a period, or use a semicolon, an em dash, a word to link them, something:

    Sentence. Sentence.
    Sentence; sentence.
    Sentence--sentence.
    Sentence, and sentence.


    Now, others may say that just as the technically incorrect use of "Though" above is a style decision, this is a style decision. I don't feel that it's as defensible, because I don't feel that people usually vocalize this punctuation choice.

    Adding all these together, this would have been clearer as:

    Though Valorie doubted the sincerity of her parents; it was the one part of the politician stigma she felt did in fact apply to them.

    Even here, you need the preceding text to make it pretty clear what this sentence is contradicting with its "though", and since "though" usually signals that the contradiction is coming later, they may not be processing what they just read to find that contradiction until they're several words further away from it. "However" signals that the contradiction has already been presented, so they'll be more alert for it. So "though" is likely to force them to go back and read again, and that's never a good thing.

    So my preference is:

    However, Valorie doubted the sincerity of her parents; it was the one part of the politician stigma she felt did in fact apply to them.
     
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  7. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    I must say it again. You're awesome! Actually, I don't think any of my 3 book drafts ever use the word "however," which is probably a mistake for the reasons you listed. I will try and make a effort to use "Though," and "However" at the more correct times. I had become worried that I was over using "though," thank you for the education. :)
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    An additional thought: often you don't need either "though" or "however." They serve to signal to the user that there's some contradiction, and often they can deal with that contradiction without a signal.
     
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