Also, if you do self publish, self publish. Anyone who controls pricing, etc., is not a self publishing service provider, they're a vanity publisher. When you self publish, you have complete control over everything. (I'm opposed to self publishing on the vast majority of cases. But the one good thing that it has is absolute control. Don't take on the negatives without at least getting that positive of control.)
That's not an offer, bruh, that's a solicitation for service. They'll take anyone whose check clears.
Well, they are genuine... a genuine vanity publisher. They're not a real publisher. Money flows to the author, not away.
Thanks everyone. It is Novum publishing that made the offer. I have seen another thread on here about them since I posted this. On a separate note I am going to continue with this project as have already commissioned an illustrator.. who is very talented. Might as well try to see it through... any advice on how to progress? Agent or self publish? It's child fantasy 6-10 ish??
for trad pub - the publisher will probably want to use their own illustrator (or a freelancer they usually use) - so if you have already commissioned your illustrator you may have to self pub anyway (if you want to do print create space is probably the way to go)
Children's books do very poorly when self-published, for a number of reasons. If you just want some copies for your own children or nephews/nieces/whatever, then I'd go to a printing firm and see what they can do. If you want to sell copies to people you don't know, trad publishing is the way to go. But I don't know if there are good MG publishers who take unagented manuscripts, or if you need an agent to get a good deal. I believe publishers prefer to use their own illustrators, and would just be buying your text. But I'm not at all certain!
Is that predominantly because self publishers are limited to amazon for physical products unless they want to go the Ingram route, and kids tend to want to pick stuff up in bookshops etc , or is it because self publisher can't compete on price doing PoD with a volume production ?
@ShaunGreen, PM me with your e-mail and I will put you in touch with someone in our writing group who self-publishes children's books, who can offer you advice on advantages and disadvantages of self-publication for this genre. He set himself up as an LLC, and his products are superbly illustrated and put together, working in your age range. He has published about 20 or 30 books, both hardback and paperback as well as Kindle, about firemen and EMTs. Judging by his ranking, he is selling perhaps ten or so paper/hard titles per month. Not quitting his day job, but he is having a lot of fun. You can check him out at https://www.amazon.com/James-Burd-Brewster/e/B01LQLY3BI/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_13?qid=1513694025&sr=8-13 And ditto what everyone else says. At least your vanity press was upfront on fees. I was approached by Dorrance on my Eagle and the Dragon two days after I registered the copyright, when all that was in the Library of Congress was the title and my name. Do NOT NOT NOT pay for publishing!
The two common routes to self publishing via print on demand are Create Space which is owned by Amazon, and Ingram Spark http://www.ingramspark.com/features Create space is free (at point of use - amazon take a cut of your sales), Ingram costs I think $50 set up costs - Ingram can get into a wider range of outlets including libraries via overdrive, but you need your own ISBN - Create space can provide an ISBN free (but this makes them publisher of record - with ingram you can use your own imprint name) This article gives a fair comparison https://kindlepreneur.com/ingramspark-vs-createspace-best-print-on-demand-services/ That said for a picture book you might be better off getting a small print run done and selling them through playgroups etc locally ... the big proviso on that is don't unless you've got a definite market .... I know a guy who wrote a children's book about the Jurassic coast, ordered 2k copies because it was a 'sure thing' and wound up having 1700 of them pulped - making a net loss. All of the above not withstanding although I'm a strong proponent of self pub generally, Tenderiser is right, Children's books, in particular colouring books are one of the hardest markets to do as a self publisher You might also find this interesting although its about adult colouring https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2016/02/29/adult-coloring-book-meg-cowley/
Thanks for that feed back. I will definitely look through those articles and archive them for future reference. This is where my problem lies... my target audience is primary school children but it is a novel length story. It is a fantasy fiction about magic, knights, quests etc... I have done some research and decided that the book would require images every so often but it is mainly written, not pictures. The book offered would have been 288 pages with 13.5x 21.5 cms dimensions and only 28 images. Not sure what the text would have been but demonstrates the length of text. It's designed to be a bedtime reading book for children; chapter a night for a few weeks... like I do my children and my mum did me! Problem is ... there doesn't seem to be a market for this?
How many words is it? Your word processor should be able to tell you. If not, you can paste it in here: https://wordcounter.net/ The publishing industry works with word counts, not page counts, so it's a good habit to get into. I think you said earlier that this book is aimed at 6-10 year olds? I'm not sure the same book can work for a six-year-old and a 10-year-old. There's a huge difference in reading ability and comprehension by then. And how many 10-year-olds get a bedtime story? You're looking at about 20,000 words for a middle grade novel aimed at 8-10-year-olds. A chapter book for six-year-olds? I don't know, but I'll bet it's a *lot* less.
If theres not an obvious market getting a trad deal will be very hard , on the flip side getting a decent income from self publish sales will also be difficult. I'd be inclined to do it through create space - and don't spend much money on its production.If you've got a decent beta reader you may be able to forgo editting and your illustrator can probably do the cover ... If the illustrator is someone you know well see if you can agree a profit share instead of paying them upfront. Then from a marketting point of view since there isnt an obvious one you need to create on - may be start with your children's school - may be they'll let you put an ad or an article in the PTA newsletter, ditto your local village newsletter and even local press (depending where you are they can be really hungry for good news stories) I doubt you'll get more than a few hundred sales unless you get lucky and it gets picked up by the mummy forums or something like that - which is why you need to keep your upfront sales down (disclaimer - I'm not a published author, far less a childrens author so take this with a truckload of salt - I'm basing off second hand info, my friends experience and my experience in marketting other services such as photography)
288 A5 pages in fairly large type would be 150 words a page, so ballpark 43k and change ... That said when I was about 8 my father read me the lord of the rings over the course of about 3 months ...LOTR is 450k and change
Even "a few hundred" is VERY optimistic. It should be assumed that the project will end up losing almost all money invested. It should be treated as a hobby/gamble, in terms of monetary expectations, though a job in terms of effort. It will likely be a job that the author pays for the privilege of doing. And for some people, that's totally fine.
Well, that doesn't sound very good. I never really gave much thought to self publishing, but the more I hear about the less I see why so many people do it. If a few hundred is very optimistic, I would find it very hard to get excited about releasing my novel this way. You can get a few hundred for a short story (not self published). I would hope my advance would be at least $10k for a novel, again not talking about self publishing obviously.
Not really - if you put it in front of a good number of local parents you'll get some sales - my freind tony got about 300 from school newsletter and an article in the local free paper (it was unfortunate he hadn't used POD and wound up losing money on the other 1700 stacked in his garage) Really the upfront costs of doing it through create space are negligible and most local publicity will be free editorial so there's no reason for it to be a loss maker even if sales are lower than anticipated. IMO treating it as a hobby/gamble is likely to become a self fulfilling prophecy - treating it as a business venture mandates strict cost control if the income projections are small.... in that regard its no different to many other small side income ventures.
That's because some people are very negative about it - mostly people who've not done it or seriously looked into it (or people with trad deals determined that trad is the one true way) The thing about self publishing is that its about the long tail, not the big spike so its difficult to make a decent income from a single book, but if you look at the long term and keep putting books out with each new book your existing portfolio also makes sales - if you publish one, get defeatist when it immediately doesn't become a best seller and give up then of course you don't make much. its also worth considering how many trad deals result in failure - judging by the remaindered books in places like the Works this must be a fairly high proportion (and that's not counting those who couldn't get a deal at all) Also in regard of the OP he's chosen a product that has a very limited obvious market - meaning that its extremely unlikely a trad publisher would be willing to take the risk - so he his choices pretty much resolve to self pub or no pub
To be honest the only reason I even thought about trying to get them published is because I saw that blooming vanity advert ... which I now know was a niave way to go. It has certainly opened my eyes to a new world and so many possibilities and ways forward. I think the honesty and helpfulness of the people on this forum is exceptional as well, making me more determine to try 'something else'. The word count is 39k+ words, so I would class that as a novel? I suppose it's more aimed at ten year olds that six, but just put the age my daughter was when I first finished the story to her. I suppose the first task would be to try and find a beta reader... I am no expert and may hold this manuscript in a higher light that I should due to the Novum offer... which I would probably have received if I'd sent I my 3 year olds scribblings...?
I do both self-publishing and use publishers, and if I had an offer for a $10K advance I'd absolutely take it. Guaranteed money is definitely preferable to risky money, and it's a VERY rare self-pubbed book that nets the author $10K. The problem, of course, is that a lot of people can't get deals with publishers. So for them, it's not a choice between self-publishing or publisher; it's a choice between self-publishing or not publishing at all. (at least for that book)
39k is a great word count for a lower MG novel. If you self-publish, you're unlikely to be able to get the same manuscript traditionally published, because publishers want first rights. But if you try to get a trad deal and don't, self-publishing is still an option. So I would always say try trad first if you're unsure, and the worst case scenario is you self-publish six months (or whatever) later than you would have. But yes, beta readers are the next step. Maybe your daughter's friends would be a good place to start? I have a friend who writes excellent MG and she's found it extremely difficult to find good beta readers.
It depends on your goals. For the most part, self-publishing is a rubbish way to make money, but it's a great way to get a book of your own. If that's what you're after, it makes sense. If you're after a $10k payday, lol no. I think making money with self-publishing can work, but you need to do it in certain niches. If you're happy to just write what's going to sell, I think it can be viable though you'll still need a large dollop of luck. Where people fall down is assuming it's got just as much potential for any story they want to write. Personally, if I want to make money with my writing, I write someone an advert, because they will pay $10k for that and it takes a lot less time than writing a novel. When I wanted a book with my name on it, I self-published. It was great
I think I'd sell my soul for a $10K advance. That would almost take care of my kid's senior year of college less her scholarship.
