1. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Occupational hazard (or just me)?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by OurJud, Sep 14, 2017.

    I'd like to gather opinion on this, to try and determine if it's part and parcel of something writers simply have to endure (at least to some degree) or if I need to take careful stock of my health.

    For as long as I can remember the physical act of sitting at a desk, writing on a PC, has caused me several aches and pains. As I have grown older, these ailments have grown with me so that now, just a few days writing leaves me feeling like I've been hit by a bus.

    Most of the aches are short-term (although none the less irritating); pressure point pains where my forearms and elbows rest on the desk (even though I have cushions there to reduce the pain), pain in my writs, more pressure pains behind my knees where they hang over the chair, eye strain... The list goes on.

    But then there's the long-term effects; back ache, neck ache, forearm muscle ache, finger joint pain.

    Am I simply a complete and utter wreck (with the possible early onset of arthritis), or do others suffer like this?

    Edited to say: My 'set-up' isn't the best. It's a small desk and my chair looks like it belongs on a rubbish tip. While not helping my situation, I'm sure my niggles can't be blamed solely on this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    My back hurts like a bitch from the spinal compression of sitting behind a desk. Hands and fingers are surprisingly okay, though. I figured the years of guitar playing would have ruined my hands by now, but maybe that's helped things? Don't know.

    My mind is completely shot. I can tell you that much. Maybe an unrelated side-effect.
     
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  3. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Well that's one comfort, if you'll pardon me taking pleasure from your suffering :)
     
  4. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    If it's any consolation, the tl;dr answer is: it's literally an occupational hazard, yes.

    Any occupation that requires a consistent posture is vulnerable to aches and pains. Unfortunately, there's nothing special about writing that makes it safer than, say, working in the typing pool in 1965, or even something that's not sitting like working on an assembly line, or waiting on tables.

    Ergonomics is an attempt to professionalize reducing risk of posture-related pain, so it might be worth exploring some common solutions. I'm not an expert, so hesitate to propose anything more specific.

    As for myself... yep. Aggravated by the fact that my 'day job' is also sitting at a desk typing on the computer. Ten to twelve hours of that, then home for another round of typin' for my own writing. There was a period this spring when I couldn't feel my fingertips due to sciatic nerve compression in the neck. Daily swimming seems to have solved it for me, but I can't recommend it for anybody else since people are just so different.
     
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  5. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    @KevinMcCormack - thanks for the reply. It is a comfort, as awful as that is to say.

    I've tried a laptop, so that I can sit on the couch, but it's impractical and after long periods you end up with a machine that feels like it's burning a whole in the top of your thighs due to overheating.

    I'm sure there are things that can help to a degree, I just don't know what they are.
     
  6. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, you're not alone at all. I also work at the same desk where I write, so I spend a lot of time sitting right where I am at this moment.

    As regards back pain, I have one these:

    IMG_0267.JPG

    It's just like a MA Roller, but this one is better for tile and hardwood floors because of the heavy rubber O-rings that keep it from slipping when you lay back on it and roll it down your back. Yes, it's on the floor and you're on top of it.

    It's not for everyone.

    It digs deep into the muscles running both sides of your spinal column, so if you're not one to tolerate deep tissue massage, or you have other known problems with your back, you may find something like this to be too much. Me, I'm down for the heavy duty, "sign a waiver" style massage, so I love it. As always with something like this, talk to your doctor.
     
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  7. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Senior Member

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    I don't know what it is called off the top of my head, but I use a laptop almost exclusively (I can use it anywhere, anytime, and in any position) and I have a plastic laptop stand thing made by Targus. It has grooves to send the heat away and can open and stay in 4 positions, and has rubber on the raised parts to help the laptop stay in position.
     
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  8. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Oh but they can, please improve your writing area! At a minimum, I'd suggest something like this:

    [​IMG]

    But seriously, do look very closely into your posture and the positioning and overall quality of your writing gear. You'd be amazed at what even half an inch of difference in the comparative heights of your arms and desk can do to your ability to write comfortably. Also, keyboards are important. After years of messing around with the cheap keyboards that come bundled with computers, I finally splashed out (well, asked for for my birthday) on an MX Cherry Red keyboard. The old one had a couple of spongy keys that just killed my fingers to try and mash; this one is clean and precise and makes typing a breeze. The MX Cherry switches come in various stiffnesses and have "clicky" or non-clicky options. IIRC, the Red is medium-firm, and it definitely makes the clicks. That might drive some people crazy, but a) I find it appealing, and b) the computer room is at the far end of the apartment from the bedroom, so no worries there. And don' t use laptops unless you have to, they're find if you're traveling but terrible for your posture and back.
     
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  9. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    My version of that has always been just shoving a thick book between my legs and laptop. Works like a charm.

    I fucked up my right wrist working on my first novel to the point that I could barely use it. Since then I've been much more careful and aware of my posture - still ended up with tendinitis in both, but that was probably inevitable anyway. I'm pretty young so I can only assume things get worse from here!

    I do write on a laptop but earlier this year I got a desk properly set up, which has helped a lot. I don't have anything fancy (ergonomic keyboard, nice chair, etc), but one of the most useful things, I've found, is just making yourself get up and stretch or at least change your position periodically. You could use a timer or something else sensible, but I've gone with the strategy of "my pet rat's cage is also on the desk and she distracts me occasionally; also, my cat is an asshole who demands frequent attention". Also totally works like a charm.

    I mostly see stretching guides aimed at artists, so that might be a thing to look up for specific types of aches. I recommend arms over your head, holding your back long and straight for a few deep breaths as you make fists and curve them forward/down and back. Then either dip your shoulders alternately to stretch those back muscles or twist at your waist - or both, screw it. And I always crack my back after stretching because it just feels fucking wonderful.

    I keep a foot prop under my desk so that my knees are a little elevated and won't bother me (I also pull my legs up and cross them in my chair sometimes, but that's definitely not a position you wanna forget that you're in and get stuck in for a while). And seriously, just getting up and walking around a bit every now and then. I keep a glass of water on my desk, drink when I'm thinking / not actively typing, and make myself get up to refill it.

    Anyway, I'm well ready to upload my brain into a cool new robot body, because the upkeep on this one's obviously a hassle.
     
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  10. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    I get terrible back pains when I sit for too long. I've found that if I sit with my feet too high for too long, like if I'm working at a station with a foot rest or a chair that's too short, that it seems to kill my back faster than anything else. Unfortunately being an almost full 2 meters tall, this is something that's far easier to do accidentally than you might think. I've also found that putting my monitor up higher than I used to, so I'm looking up slightly as I type, helps a bit, too. Wrist pads and supports tend to make my pinkies go numb, so I don't really recommend those, either, but oddly enough, I've found that having a mouse that's the right size for your hand goes a long way to avoiding wrist pains. I also try to remember to get up and take a break every once in a while. Like go for a run, grab some tea and whatnot. This also helps with writers block. I've found that when I work out, hyperextensions and bridges help a lot to keep the pains away as well. They usually bunch up in the loser back on me. I've heard some good things about standing desks, too, and I've been looking into either getting one or putting one together for myself, but for some reason haven't actually got around to it yet.
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'm not sure we want to see your adult toys Wrey ;)

    Joking aside back pain wise i find a decent chair helps a lot, as does making sure your whole workstation is set up properly for maximum comfort. Mice are one of the common issues for wrist pain and you may well find that a track ball or one f the specially shaped mice is the way forward
     
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  12. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks everyone. A lot of great tips and advice there, all of which I will try to some degree. I especially like the sound of the foot stool tip.

    I've already done something positive by moving my CPU tower from underneath my desk (where I kept banging my knee on it and it prevented me from tucking my legs under the desk properly) to the side of the desk. The well is now free of clutter and I'm able to get my legs under properly. Only downside to that is that it puts my head too close to the monitor and because the desk is so short back to front, I have to sit away from the desk, anyway, to get a comfortable reading distance.

    I think a bigger desk wouldn't go amiss.
     
  13. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I don't have a lot of back pain usually, but I move around a lot while writing (crossing my legs in my chair, putting one leg under me, putting my feet up on something...). Also, I have the opposite problem of most of you, in that I can't really just put my feet down because if my chair is at the height it needs to be for my arms/hands to be comfortable, my feet won't actually touch the floor (yes, I'm that short). I also don't usually get the neck pain you all talk of (because I'm not that far above the screen). I am curious though, for those of you with the hand issues - what works best for that? My hands seriously just lock up sometimes and it's excruciating. I have to sit on them and force them to straighten out. Anyone else ever experience this? (And I'm only in my 30's, so I'm kind of afraid this is going to get so much worse :()
     
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  14. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Senior Member

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    Mine weighs about 6 ounces and fits into a laptop bag. I think I paid $10 for it about 7 years ago. I use it at all times so I don't melt table covers, leave discoloration on nice wood, etc. It's really nice that it can be used in both orientations when opened, depending on the slope of the surface (sometimes I sit on an ottoman and put the laptop on the chair). It also keeps it raised so the vents don't get blocked and overheat the computer. When moving a laptop to another area, it helps to prevent the laptop body from bending. I don't own much and it has stuck with me for a long time (compared to almost anything else).
     
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  15. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    That doesn't sound like my experience with tendon or nerve pain, so - not a doctor - but it might be arthritis? Heat helps with that, I think.
     
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  16. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Maybe? I'll try that next time. It only happens when I've been writing for 9+ hours at a stretch usually. And it's not even that they're sore or anything, they just lock up - out of nowhere. And they'll be sore for a little while after, but it's not constant. It sucks.
     
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  17. 20oz

    20oz Active Member

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    I don't have many issues with pain--back, wrist, neck, etc.

    The only thing that bothered me was eye strain due to the brightness of the screen, and even then I just dim the screen to 2 or 3. I've kept it like that for years now.

    My back does get achy from time to time, but I just rub my back against the door threshold. It works marvellously for me.

    EDIT: I also write in notebooks first and then type it up, so I won't need to be at my desk at all times.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  18. archer88i

    archer88i Banned Contributor

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    Sitting at a desk will kill you. I do it at my day job, in addition to screwing around with the idea of being an author. The only real solution is to do as little of it as possible, and as much of anything else as you can get away with. Not much of a solution.
     
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  19. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    "Anyone else ever experience this?" - I think you're describing textbook [Writer's Cramp].

    It's the duelling scar of this profession.

    Your Python moment: ["It's his writer's cramp! You'd better go."]
     
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  20. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Lucky me. Lol, that's pretty much what it does.
     
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  21. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Senior Member

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    See if your computer has a 'night' setting and if you can use it 24 hours a day. I use it on my mac and it puts off a red light vs the usual blue and has helped me tremendously.
     
  22. 20oz

    20oz Active Member

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    Lol. That'd be nice to have. But I have a ghetto set-up.
     
  23. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    You could get flux. My eyes die and go to hell when I have to work without it.
     
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  24. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Thanks. I've been wondering if there was something like this out there.
     
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