On beauty, racism and the effect media has on self esteem

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by jazzabel, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    @T.Trian : I was just being facetious calling them 'mediocre' alluding to 12345 calling girls in flat shoes 'just one of many...did nothing to deserve attention' or something to that effect. Sorry, it was a little passive aggressive outburst, I don't think they are ordinary either :)

    Btw, on the point of 'having to look a certain way' I read that in one South American country, women were allowed to have plastic surgery through healthcare and that bosses insisted their secretaries and various other employees had work done in order to look a certain way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
  2. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Me neither! Never meant to make that connection.
     
  3. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    I'm going to go on record to say that in my eyes, clear complexion, even skin tone, symmetry of features shows more beauty. Therefore, Lupita Nyong is beautiful in my eyes. However, I will also state that I have a fascination with the contrast of skin tone. I don't know if I'd call it a fetish, but I'm not repulsed by the idea of a dark skinned black female next to me.
     
  4. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You missed the whole point of the images, Duchess. Seriously. :cool:

    Think "happily ever after...Not"
     
  5. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    @jazzabel You mentioned high heels and other female clothing/accessories being used as a way to control women, kind of like corsets back in the 19th century and earlier. I read somewhere that the modern day corset is stilettos and a pencil skirt as they also restrict women's movements. You can't really run in either so better not go to a bad neighborhood in your office garb...

    Anyway, what sometimes stresses me out is that to be noticed, to be able to get ahead, be it with your career or life in general, women (and to a degree, men) are required to wear uncomfortable clothing or spend a lot of money on facials and hair cuts or spend at least half an hour every morning putting together a face acceptable enough to the outside world, yet all this shallow, pointless stuff rarely has anything to do with your professional skills. I think it's nuts, and I can't help but feel like rebelling against it instead of bending over and taking it up the ass.

    Fuck it, I feel like ranting, so here we go.
    I really hate heels, and it has taken me forever to find the perfect pair 'cause I know there're occasions when I'm expected to wear them. They make my ankles and the balls of my feet hurt (and this comes from an avid boxer, I spend plenty of time on the balls of my feet and I have killer calves, but still!) and they aren't gentle to my lower back either. I have great posture from horseback riding, so it's not like I'm doing it terribly wrong, it's just that it doesn't feel like a natural, healthy position for me to be in (funny how I don't get these aches when doing calf/back/butt-friendly excersises...). I honestly don't know how some women do it. I've seen many kick their shoes off the first chance they get and I'm not surprised they prefer to sit if they can -- rather than walk or stand.

    I guess I'm just happy I'm not in the dating game anymore if the majority of men prefer heels. Whew. Not that I've ever had problems attracting attention in jeans and low-heel boots.

    However, I also know women who like "feminine" stuff. They want to be every day princesses. That's sweet. I can understand that pulling on those pumps makes you feel confident. You feel like a character from some TV show or a glossy magazine. To some, the discomfort and sprained ankles are worth that feeling, and why not? Some people get piercings even though they might get torn off and ruin your face. I have super long hair even though it's impractical, but I like plaiting it in different ways and all that.

    But I'm not happy if, to be accepted, one has to pretend to be someone they are not or wear something that causes discomfort just because. I'm lucky to live in a fairly tolerant society that allows female teachers to wear combat boots and studded belts, where I can go to the office in jeans and Uggis and without any make-up, and still I don't have to feel like a wallflower whose opinion is not heard, whose left wallowing in mediocrity. Every day is a casual day if you want it to be. However, I know this isn't the case in every workplace, and also, if you go higher up in the food chain, the more your appearance seems to matter, especially if you're a woman. Why aren't the skills enough?

    I know men have to wear their suits and ties to some occasions during summer when it's hot and they sweat like pigs, but that's just annoying; it doesn't actually hurt or cause injuries like heels can (you might get dehydrated, but that has to be pretty damn rare). The suits don't restrict your movement as much as pencil skirts either. Not that I'd mind if men decided to wear t-shirts and shorts.

    Sorry, this had less to do with race (though I'm sure we have several rants on racial discrimination and gender in workplaces too), but I guess it has to do with beauty and the effect media has on self-esteem, then.
     
  6. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    I miss points! It's part of my job description.
     
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  7. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    And like, at the same time, I really saw no point in it at all.
     
  8. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Actually, I didn't aim that last line at you at all, I got it that you didn't mean it like that. :cool:
     
  9. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Perhaps there is a different explanation. I don't claim to know, but when I went looking I found this very interesting explanation:

    http://kotaku.com/5627268/why-do-japanese-characters-look-white
    That's an eye opener.
     
  10. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    Sorry @T.Trian, I got confused :)

    @KaTrian : I could not agree more. On the topic of males, male doctors here are expected to wear a suit and tie to work. You can take the jacket off, but without a tie, you are nothing (unless you are in the theatre wearing scrubs). So, imagine that tie touching patients as they listen to their heart or what have you, imagine the infection control issues. And yet, if you want to be taken seriously you must wear a tie. Some try to tuck it into their shirts, but when shit hits the fan, they can't really keep track of it. It's gross.
     
  11. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You don't need to say it twice. Better to think about what it was you missed and expand your horizons. You can still disagree with the point, but you might want to consider what the point is before judging.
     
  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Re doctors and ties, it's amazing how many haven't gotten the message. They don't wear them or they have to be pinned to the shirt in the clinics I work in.

    2006 BMJ: Doctors are told to ditch “disease spreading” necktie

    2003 BMJ: Doctors should abandon ties and nose rings
    :rolleyes:

    That's a decade ago.

    Stethoscopes are still an issue.
     
  13. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    What some models (you talking runway or catalog?) (and for the record I know counter examples) choose to wear or not wear in their personal lives is really irrelevant to the larger point. We've all seen women in real life in broad daylight who look, walk, and dress like the models on t.v, although maybe they're slightly too fat for the real thing. These women stand out, plain and simple.
     
  14. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    How else do you expect to get noticed? With the exception of a few blessed/cursed people, most people need to work to get noticed, that's just how it is. Heels are simply a tool. Use them or don't. But I agree it's a shame if women are expected to wear heels at work. They should have the option to wear exactly what men are expected to wear, suit, tie, pants, dress shoes.
     
  15. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Every doctor should wear a bow tie. Bow ties are cool.
     
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  16. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Maybe I'll put that suggestion in the infection control policy I'm currently reviewing. :p
     
  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I've always found it interesting, that in the animal kingdom, humans are the ONLY species that requires the females to doll themselves up and become 'attractive' in order to get a mate. Throughout the animal world, it's always the male that dresses up and puts on the show, while it's the female that 'chooses' the one (or ones) she fancies.
     
  18. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    There are so many trade offs, though. In much of the animal kingdom males fight each other, the female has little to do with the selection process, rather the female is merely the prize. Those overly large elephant seals are fairly unattractive as ideal mates go.

    Sometimes the males compete and the females choose, that's a good situation. But how about when such a selection process results in the evolutionary dead end of the male good-for-little-but-display peacock?

    Nature has quite the variety. I like to think we humans are evolving toward the partnership for life relationship. We aren't there yet, but I like to think that's where natural selection pressures are pointing.
     
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  19. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    @GingerCoffee
    Well, yeah, I'm all for the partnership variety of courtship myself. Nothing would bore me more, than watching guys tromping past in high heeled shoes, heavy makeup, excessively tortured hairdos and welded-on body parts, trying to attract my attention for mating purposes.

    I've always said that if a guy requires these kinds of displays from me, I'm not interested in HIM.
     
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  20. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Now if a few more men would realize the same is true about what is attractive in a female partner. ;)
     
  21. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    Men have there own ritual. Working long hours at hard jobs, making as much money as possible to make a stable nest. They groom, they buy expensive clothes, keep it neat, etc, all for the purpose of attracting a mate.
     
  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You of course have a peer-reviewed statistical study that backs up this statement?
     
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  23. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    They were mostly catwalk models but also some are mainly magazine. Haute couture fashion, so these are the models you see in Vogue and Chanel show and similar.
    You can choose to be stubborn in order to maintain your views, I can see how that works. You simply refuse to believe something, or minimise it, in order to justify rejecting it. But I am telling you, because I know that world from the inside, high fashion female models abhor heels and 'dolling up' in their spare time. They have enough of it at work already. It's just how it is. Anyway, I'm not going to continue 'convincing you' I just wanted to offer information, for posterity sake.

    And about attracting a mate, regardless of what I wear, I always get male attention. I noticed that with a lot of girls around me. Men and women look at each other, and they can see something they like without all that makeup caked on top. On the other hand, when I'm most dolled up and alone (hasn't happened in a while now) I get only jerks to approach me. Looking like you stepped off the cover of the magazine is the strongest jerk magnet I know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
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  24. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You're right of course. But I don't mean to imply people shouldn't take care of themselves or make themselves attractive for a mate. (For me, clean and natural, physically fit and active is a huge attractant in a mate, as is talent and purpose in some field of endeavour.)

    My point is that the things women are expected to do (by certain members of society) in order to attract a mate—the crippling high heels, the boob jobs, the hair dye that contains dangerous chemicals, the makeup that wrecks the pocketbook and the skin—are uncomfortable at best, dangerous at worst, and serve no useful purpose at all. These 'attractants' cause physical pain, deformity, and can actually wreck a woman's health. They also severely limit a woman's ability to function normally.

    What chance will a woman have as a mother if she has artificial boobs? She certainly won't be suckling children on them (I hope.) And try running after small children when you're wearing high heels. In other days, when corsets were the norm, women compressed their reproductive organs to the extent that childbirth became difficult and dangerous. So these things are not part of any normal mating process. It's just stupidity, mainly aimed at selling and buying, and to some extent at controlling women and keeping them from achieving their full potential. The old notion that if you can make somebody else look incompetent, you'll look better by comparison?

    This isn't the same thing as working hard to create a good life (for yourself as well as your mate), or grooming yourself so you will appeal to members of the opposite sex.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
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  25. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    Well said @jannert, spot on.
     

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