1. Stormsong07

    Stormsong07 Contributor Contributor

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    Overuse of common fantasy themes?

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Stormsong07, Apr 7, 2018.

    OK, so my WIP is a YA fantasy, and as I am approaching the final quarter of my first draft I'm wondering....have I overused common fantasy themes?

    I have:
    1. Death of a parent, vow to discover the perpetrator/achieve justice
    2. Mysterious parentage...father who died is not really birth father...but who is? Dead mother (died when MC small) has unknown magical history and a mysterious death
    3. Emerging magical powers (but nothing major, I promise! She's only half wizard, so her powers are limited....)
    4. Unique bloodline that allows her to have a unique mount (in a world where most of the main cast rides mythological beasts, she will have a unique one...ok, a dragon...)
    5. mysterious enemy targeting her for as-yet-unknown reasons (ok, she has a unique ability which will allow her to foil the bad guy plans in a big way, but she doesn't know it yet)
    6. and I'm debating throwing a prophecy in there. But only the bad guys know the prophecy and the good guys don't find out about it until after it's come true.
    7. And finally, its a coming of age story where she has to conquer inner doubts to rise as a hero.


    Oh God, I've really thrown them all in there. Is this gonna sink me?
     
  2. Dragon Turtle

    Dragon Turtle Deadlier Jerry

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    Most of what you've said here is so vague I really can't tell. The dragon-riding and prophecy do kind of give me pause... but if you manage to put a unique spin on them, it might not be an issue? Execution is king. The real question is whether these work in your story, and no one can tell you that from a forum post.
     
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  3. Infel

    Infel Contributor Contributor

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    A lot of those are just tropes of the genre, my friend! You'll be fine enough as long as you put a new spin and a unique take on them. Also, it'll lessen the burden if you add in other, not-so-trusted tropes to mix things up!

    I have 4/7 of the things you just listed, but I almost guarantee we approach them in drastically different ways, and our characters experience and react to them differently. You can make those themes as unique as you are; just make sure you put in the effort to make them different somehow!
     
  4. Night Herald

    Night Herald The Fool Contributor

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    Well, okay, some of those might border on clichès... but so what? It's not really about what tropes are in play, it's what you do with them. You might want to think about whether you can subvert some of them, though.

    I don't see anything here that would outright prevent me from reading.
     
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  5. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Don’t worry about this kind of stuff. Worry about writing a damn good story—well written and engaging. You do that, these sorts of things won’t matter so much.
     
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  6. Dracon

    Dracon Contributor Contributor

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    1. All MCs should have an interesting past.
    2. As long as the mother is not secretly alive and actually the main antagonist, I don't mind!
    3. I think that is the standard, I don't think that means it classified as "overused".
    4. Probably.
    5. As long as we're not in the dark forever,I think it's a good way of building intrigue.
    6. I can't stand prophecies personally. They're just unwelcome spoilers and kill off any suspense.
    7. Think of your audience! If it's a YA, then I think it's important to have an MC with which that audience can identify.
     
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  7. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    When I was younger I would have said, WOW.

    Now, I can't help but think, "you're going to have an easy time marketing this."

    Definitely other members here will have more valuable opinions on this subject than I do, but from the little I've seen, you use your tropes as your launchpad (my novel is marketable because it has all the things readers love) and you then you add some sort of "spin" which will convince the agent/publisher why your particular novel should be the one to get sold.
     
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  8. awkwarddragon

    awkwarddragon Member

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    OP, you can have as many tropes and cliches you want in your story, but it's the execution that matters.
     
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  9. John Grant

    John Grant Member

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    Don't worry about it, As long as you aren't trying to copy someone else's style and content, you'll be fine. Hollywood has been spinning out the same tired stories over and over again for decades and the american public eat it up. If you are true to your own voice then your product will have some uniqueness to it.
     
  10. Antaus

    Antaus Active Member

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    Like many other people here have said, it's not the trope that becomes the problem, it's the execution. A great example of this is MMOs which have a huge problem with being a game that's 'new, innovative, exciting, and unlike anything you've ever played!', except for the fact it's the same sh*t with a different paint job. This largely stems from real life marketing. People tend to look at what works and want to copy it, because many are afraid to try anything too radically different from the 'established' genre, for fear of failing. For that reason they take what works, trying to add a spin to it, then market it as something new, resulting in copy/paste genre dilution.

    If you want a good example of original science fiction that it radically different and successful, read a Star Trek book, then read Frank Herbert's Dune. Herbert created a science fiction universe that bombs on the big screen because the book is so complex, it's almost impossible to translate it in a such a limited time format.
     
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  11. Safety Turtle

    Safety Turtle Senior Member

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    I mean they're common for a reason.
    Some people have a distaste for some particular tropes (I personally stay away from anything with "classic fantasy races" and a "chosen one/lost prince/ss" plotline) and you shouldn't change anything to appeal to them, as there are other people who love the tropes you have in your story.

    Every single story written is filled to the brim with known tropes, it's all about how to put those tropes together.
     
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  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    If you're looking for one little trick that will allow you to write tropes like the ones you've listed, @Stormsong07 , I'd go for character. Make the characters (all of them) so unique that they are unforgettable. If you take all the tropes then add stock characters as well, you might get people to enjoy reading the story. But they are likely to be the kind of folks who enjoy reading the same thing over and over. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to stand out, while still creating the kind of story that has been 'done before' —as you clearly recognise—go for unforgettable characters.

    That doesn't mean you need to strain yourself making them odd or unusual. What you need to do is get inside their heads. Firmly. Make them into real people. Each real person is unique. So make that a centrepoint. Create a real person. What would a real person do in the circumstances you've set? And if you create all your characters this way, then the way your main character reacts to others will be realistic as well. They will have ambivalent feelings towards most people, as most of us do.

    That's the key, I reckon. Take an old, overused set of plot tropes, if you want, but make a completely human and believable character enact them. That requires you to be immersed in your characters and story. If something you imagine takes you away from the trope a bit, so much the better. Most people don't enjoy a story where it's obvious what's going to happen. So shake that up, if you can. You can do that with character.

    I keep harking back to one of my favourite fantasy authors, Joe Abercrombie. He employs this believable and unique character thing better than anybody.

    His First Law trilogy contains a ready-made handsome 'hero' ...who isn't very heroic, is self absorbed and borderline unlikeable at times, even though he is one of the POV characters. (Jezal.) Abercrombie has also created a handicapped victim-of-torture character (Glokta) who would normally be one we'd side with (the underdog) but who is actually quite repellent ...or is he? As we get to know him, his persona grows on us. The lumpen savage who goes on berserker rages and kills everything in his path (Logen) is actually a pretty nice guy, who wishes he could live a quieter life. Ardee West, the femme fatale of the piece, has a drink problem and a very sarcastic and bitter twist to her personality as a result. All of these characters are POV characters, so we get to know them inside and out. (There are other POV characters as well, equally believable.)

    And then there's the wizard ...quite a change from what you'd expect.

    Abercrombie has the knack of creating one-off characters, from the most important players to the bit players. This makes his story rise way above the fantasy tropes the story is based on. And you not only can't predict what's going to happen, but what happens WILL surprise you. And yet you leave the trilogy satisfied as hell. I can't ask for more in a fantasy writer.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  13. LastMindToSanity

    LastMindToSanity Contributor Contributor

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    It won't sink you as long as you're writing a story, and not a collection of tropes. I belong to the thought that tropes/cliches/archetypes are completely fine in a story; so long as they're written well.

    You should never think that just using tropes/cliches will sink you. Tropes/cliches don't ruin stories, bad writing does. You just need to remember that you're writing a story, and that, just because you've seen all this before, doesn't mean that you can't use tropes or cliches. No one will care if your story is filled with fantasy cliches as long as you write it well.

    Hope this helps!
     
  14. Dragon Turtle

    Dragon Turtle Deadlier Jerry

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    I think the funniest thing is that he managed to pull off an honest-to-god mirror scene, where a POV character spends ages examining and describing their face in a mirror, and because it's Jezal, you're just like of course he's doing that. So much respect for Joe that he made a mirror scene work. :rofl:
     
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  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I get the impression that he takes clichés and tropes and deliberately gives them a twist that makes them fantastic. I mean ...does anybody do a 'cliffhanger' better than Abercrombie? He had me hooked on the story long before I got to that point, but it was a corker.
     
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  16. Azuresun

    Azuresun Senior Member

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    Indeed. I sometimes think that everyone who wants to start writing should be required to sign a form saying they've read and understood this page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools :)

    Clichés are a trade-off. On the one hand, you'll make your story a bit more predictable and risk making the reader think "X did it better." On the other hand, they became clichés for a reason, because they get the reader into the story without gratuitous over-explanation (if you say "there are dragons in the mountains!", the readers will have a baseline for what a dragon is, so you don't need to exposit that they're big flying reptiles, probably fire-breathing), and still carry emotional weight despite (or because of) their familiarity. The trick, as others have said, is to execute the clichés so well that the readers won't care they've seen this sort of thing before.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  17. Spirit of seasons

    Spirit of seasons Active Member

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    My story is definitly 1, 2, and 7. Rose never knew her mother, and her father dies early in the story. I think most hero’s journey type stories have to have some amount of comming of age inner termoil. If you see a trope emerging you should fully embrace it and roll with the punches.
     
  18. badgerjelly

    badgerjelly Contributor Contributor

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    The heroes journey is a common thread in most narratives (although not always for the MC.)

    Not that I read much fiction anymore (esp. fantasy), my biggest gripe has always been the lack of imagination when it comes to creating different races. Tired of elves, dwarfs and orcs, although I am willing to let dragons slide becasue they are global symbols of power and destruction, as well as wisdom.

    If it’s well written it’s well written. Don’t worry about common themes especially when dealing with a YA audience who probably haven’t come across much in he way of mythological stories.
     
  19. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributor Contributor

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    As mentioned so far, there's nothing wrong with the tropes being used, it's all about the execution, and that is delivered in the characters.

    Adding to what @jannert said, I am going to give you the biggest piece of advice that I was given as an author.

    Trust your characters.

    Get in their heads to the point that you hear their voices in yours, learn their habits, and then just sketch out the basic premise and let them do the work. It's why I get one-liners creep in my heads now and then and they can evolve into an entire scene.

    As for conquering inner doubts, that is what growing up and finding your place in the world is all about, there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's a theme in my book and that's a supernatural romance with a strong beating over the head about why dogma is a dangerous thing.
     
  20. Pandaking908

    Pandaking908 Member

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    Every fantasy series has to be a trilogy. I don't know if that's just a fantasy thing, but I see it a lot in fantasy.
     

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