Overused/dumb supernatural fiction tropes

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by taariya, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. halisme

    halisme Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Nope, I've got stored up hate for non-paranormal YA stuff. I'm getting my cynicism stick ready and making a Hunger Games Pinata so I'll probably make a thread later.
     
  2. taariya

    taariya Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Illinois
    I'm on the lookout. I have SO much to say about Hunger Games and the terrible streak of "dystopian" novels it's spawned.
     
  3. halisme

    halisme Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Nice to know I'll have another person joining the party.
     
  4. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    204
    Can you give an example? Twilight *shudder* required using a poor, misunderstood girl with a rape fetish. The Hunger Games requires a dystopia and a teenager who becomes a champion gladiator.
    Those tropes are essential to their respective stories. So, what's a good example of what you're talking about?
     
  5. taariya

    taariya Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Illinois
    Let's start with Twilight. Were you to write a premise for that novel, what would it look like? I'd say "Teenage girl's existence is threatened by bloodthirsty vampires after she moves back to her hometown, but she is saved by a group of magnanimous vampires who change her life forever". Now let's look at some of the problems and tropes in that book and see if they were "essential".

    Did Bella have to be insta-liked by everyone she met despite having less personality than overcooked rice in order for that premise to work? No.
    Did she have to be unaccountably special by virtue of having specially tempting blood and an unreadable mind in order for that premise to work? No.
    Did the vampires have to be insanely beautiful and aloof for that premise to work? No.
    Did the vampires have to even attend high school for that premise to work? No.
    Did there have to be a game of baseball for that premise to work? No
    Did there have to be the whole hot-and-cold unhealthy relationship between a 109 year old man and a boring 16 (?) year old girl for that premise to work? No.


    And it goes on and on like that. There is a difference between "I made this creative decision because I liked it, because it made sense in my novel, because it's the best way to do it, because it's easier than the other ways, because I was inspired by blah blah blah, because I just wanted to" and "This creative decision was essential to my work and the only possible way that it could be done".

    That's all. Thanks.
     
  6. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    204
    Thanks, I totally get you and support that.
    Of course, many people around here know that I'm rather a stickler for Chekov's Gun.
     
  7. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,850
    Likes Received:
    35,470
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    Oh man, this is going to hurt.
    A) I hate to defend Twilight
    B) I've never actually read any of the books, and only seen the first movie

    But...

    Years ago a student explained the appeal that Hello Kitty has to the Japanese. She told me that since Kitty has no mouth, she has no expression, which means that, to owners of the dolls, she is feeling whatever they are feeling at the moment. If one is sad, Kitty is commiserating, if one is happy, so is she.

    There's a point, I promise. I read a critique years ago that praised Bella's "overcooked rice" (nice phrase, btw) personality and (reported) lack of physical description for the permission that it gave the target audience to project themselves into the character. If it was said that Bella was 175cm tall, blonde, and slender, you might lose the five foot nothing mousy brown hair could lose a few pounds demographic.

    It shouldn't and wouldn't work for all stories, but whether she knew it or not, the author hit on a good technique that probably helped make her stories more popular.
     
    taariya likes this.
  8. DeadMoon

    DeadMoon The light side of the dark side Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    519
    Location:
    fargo, ND
    I like a good vampire story but I Hate when (and this is not used all the time) the vampire can not entire a house unless invited. that's even worse then when they sparkle.
     
    taariya likes this.
  9. Zorg

    Zorg Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Sonora, CA
    You mean enter? I ask because I recently saw the hilarious What We Do in The Shadows, which was a mockumentary about vampires, and their complaint was they could not enter a nightclub without being invited in.
     
    Oscar Leigh and Iain Aschendale like this.
  10. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,850
    Likes Received:
    35,470
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    The original Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie had a good take on that when the vampires were able to get into the prom.
    "They're seniors, they're invited!"
     
  11. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    204
    This makes me think of Harry Dresden, actually. Yes, he's a wizard. But, he's a wizard in which house thresholds do, indeed, have substantial magical power such that he won't enter a house if he can help it unless he's invited. That's because his magical powers will be suppressed to a large degree if he violates the threshold. He also points out that some thresholds are stronger than others. A bachelor's threshold, particularly the threshold of a bachelor who sleeps around a lot, isn't all that strong. It is almost negligible. But, the threshold of a healthy and happy family's home can be scary strong.
    I think adding more depth into the threshold idea, like is done in the Dresdenverse, can make the threshold barrier a more appealing idea. You could do things like have a wife get seduced by a human male, when she cheats on her husband, the vampire to whom the human male is in thrall can freely enter the family's home and put the children in jeopardy.
     
  12. doggiedude

    doggiedude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    Location:
    Florida, USA, Earth, The Sol System
    I was gonna mention the Dresden thing but ya beat me to it. Butcher portrays it very well. In fact, almost all of his magical concepts are described in a way that almost make it believable.
    (I still want to call for Tute-Tute. He never comes when I leave pizza & milk out for him. :mad:
     
  13. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    204
    I have it on good authority that Toot-Toot has moved to Italy. There were too many fans of Buther's books who tried to summon him. It wore him out. He tried a twelve-step program, but that was no good. The poor guy was starting to look even more like a heroin addict than normal. Butcher felt really guilty about it. So, Buther had Michael Carpenter call in a couple of favors with the Vatican. Now, Toot-Toot lives in the land of pizza and, as I understand it, he owns a rustic villa with a beautiful view of the sea and about forty Italian chefs making pizza all day. Never let it be said that the Pope (well, the new one) doesn't know how to return a favor.
     
  14. Laura wise

    Laura wise Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Australia
    The human main character with a supernatural lover trope.
    Why can't we have a story where a vampire tries to hide their vampirism from a human lover or has a string of different relationships over the course of centeries.
     
    Iain Aschendale and DeadMoon like this.
  15. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,850
    Likes Received:
    35,470
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    Or an unstable human with a thing for supernatural beasties that always ends badly for the beasties.

    <edit for poor phrasing>
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
    Catrin Lewis, taariya and Oscar Leigh like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice