1. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Passive verbs.

    Discussion in 'Point of View, and Voice' started by w. bogart, Nov 13, 2022.

    Grammar checker is driving me crazy, It tells me I am using passive Verbs any time I make a reference to events in the past. For example: we know that was tampered with some time in the past. How do you deal with this, without making the language sound awkward to the ear when reading it aloud?
     
  2. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I turn off grammar checker :)
     
  3. Lili.A.Pemberton

    Lili.A.Pemberton Active Member

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    Turn off grammar checker x 2.
     
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  4. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    It is on due to some of the feedback on my first work. LOL
     
  5. Lili.A.Pemberton

    Lili.A.Pemberton Active Member

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    The real answer is grammar checkers are not infallible and something as subjective as 'when to use passive verbs' is pretty much always up to author's interpretation and no grammar checker can take your entire story into context as to whether that one sentence needs to be turned into active or whatever. If it sounds right when reading the story aloud then there's probably no need to change it.
     
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  6. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    In other words learn to live with it. Like the idiot GPS that says turn left now, when your in the middle of a corn field. I have seen people that do it.
    I had grammar issues pointed out on a work I recently posted, so maybe I went to far the other way trying to fix those issues. Thanks
     
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    And then burn it. Grammar checkers are useless. They analyze words in a vacuum without context or stylistic nuance.
     
  8. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    If you feel you MUST fix it, it's easily doable.

    The dirt of the grave had been disturbed.
    Clods of earth lay by the graveside. Someone - or something - had disturbed it.

    The door had been opened.
    The door was open.

    But yes, burning the grammer checker is a better solution, so long as you know when to use the passive voice for best effect.
     
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  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Yeah, they're not wrong. Sorry, it really wasn't great advice.
     
  10. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    It's about improving my writing, by listening to the critics, at least the constructive ones.
     
  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    And that's the point. Sometimes, you should improve it, and other times, it's best left as it is.

    Ask yourself if the sentence as it stands has the impact that you want it to. If it does, leave it. If not, change it.
     
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  12. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    That is a good piece of advice thank you.
     
  13. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Contest Winner 2022

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    I don't know anything about grammar checker, but I do know you should try to avoid passive voice if you can. For example, not the best writing to begin sentences with "There was...." or "It was...."
     
  14. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I leave grammar check on when I'm writing. I know that everything it "catches" is not always a problem, but it does make me reconsider when something gets marked. Honestly, it doesn't happen often. I'm pretty good at grammar. But if something is marked as passive, I do give it some thought and see if there's a better way to write what I'm trying to say. In my opinion, I'm glad there are things like grammar check. Sometimes there are better ways to say something and make a sentence more active than passive. It doesn't really hurt anything to do that. Other times I'll ignore grammar check because I do believe I know what I'm doing and it isn't always the best thing to make a suggested change. But more times than not, I think I do take the suggestions at least into consideration. Like I said, grammar check seems to rarely find things like this in my writing. Most of the time I forget that it's even on or is a thing at all. But I can't imagine shutting it off would really do a writer any favors.
     
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  15. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    That did the trick.
    "and we know someone tampered with it some time in the past."
     
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  16. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Contest Winner 2022

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    Or describe exactly what you saw that led to the conclusion it was tampered with: Scratches marred the surface ... or ... A strange smell escaped through the open lid
     
  17. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    In this case the lack of detail compared to the other codex. :)
     
  18. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Contest Winner 2022

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    It's probably me, but I don't know what this means
     
  19. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    When compared to the other codex in the story, which has much more detail, it is obvious something altered the one being discussed.
     
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  20. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    (This week I filled another thread with technical approaches to passives. I won't say anything technical here. I promise!)

    With passives it really doesn't matter all that much, and looking at your line, I don't think it matters at all. A grammar checker isn't the same as a spell checker. Don't conflate them. You probably want to fix every spelling mistake (Other than deliberate misspellings. They do exist: e.g., Krispy Kreme. It's squiggled in red as I type this.) Writing often uses broken grammar. Writing styles will break it pretty frequently. You just let those green squiggles slide by. They often don't matter.

    One reason you might like a passive is that whatever comes last in your sentence gets emphasis. By leaving out the actor, you're putting more emphasis on the act, the timing, etc.

    We know that was tampered with some time in the past. (emphasis is on when)
    We know that some time in the past that was tampered with. (emphasis on tampering)
    Some time in the past it was tampered with, and we know this. (tacked onto a passive, but the emphasis is on the group knowing this)

    Your grammar checker doesn't understand what needs to be emphasized. It doesn't know what the words mean, it doesn't grasp the intent of a sentence, and it's clueless as to story. It's giving you stock advice. It would hand out the same advice to any writer regardless of their intentions. It's like a grammar horoscope.

    Think of it this way . . . If most of your sentences ended with a question mark, it would point out a strange quality in your writing. You'd want to reduce the questions you're asking. But there should still be some questions there. They're definitely not mistakes. They're used where they're needed.

    There are plenty of other reasons for passives too, but I'm going to keep this a normal-length post.

    --------------

    edit: If it were me editing that line, I would want to crunch down the connectives. Less words distills a thought. I wouldn't even consider the passiveness of it. I feel that would be a much more effective use of your revision time.

    We know that was sabotaged some time ago.​
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
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  21. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Thanks, that helps.
     
  22. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Fewer words.

    Oh wait, you turned me off.

    Nooooooooo......
     
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