I dunno if this is in the correct bit but I didn't want to litter up general with this. Right so, I have my story that I've been tryna write for about 5 years now and I've grown since then. I went from being only to write in 1st person and trying 3rd person meant head hopping to being able to do 3rd person limited pretty well. I do however have a problem. I wanna get this story right and I've realised that the way to do this is to show scenes that my main character would never see. I was going through the major plot points with my bab and when trying to further it, I had to keep shooting his ideas down because either it would involve doing something convoluted to jam in the main character to that scene or have it happen 'off screen'. But often these scenes were ones we agreed would help the reader understand the plot better or develop characters more and my story would be emptier without them. I'm trying my best to do 3rd person omnipresent?? or whatever its called and I no longer head hop as I don't enter any of my character's thoughts which is better. BUT, it makes him less main charactery and the piece seem more like an ensemble cast. Do I limit the number of scenes without him present? Or have I got it all very wrong? Sorry for the big old rambly thing
I've tried that once and I don't like it very much, its too choppy and change-y. I don't know, it just doesn't mesh with my brain, I've read far too many aimed at 10+ and they're terrible. Sorry if I'm moaning XD
You're fine. I complain a lot about timelines myself. Have you tried doing a set number of chapters for pov characters at any given time? It can become a pattern and appear not so random. I feel it works better with two or three characters, rather than a huge cast which can easily become muddled.
Well my main character has the majority of scenes that are needed while there's probs about only 7-15 scenes that I kind of need to make the story make sense and would otherwise involve someone telling my mc that this thing happened and I'd rather show it. But none of my other characters really have enough scenes to warrent them being a pov, without me making some up that would seem not as vital to the story. Can I like have most of the scenes involving my mc but only a few not involving him using 3rd person or would that read bad?
This is where you might need to give yourself a good shake, and start to think about a slightly different way to tell your story. One precept I live by, when writing, is that if you have a story problem and you want that problem to go away, you have to change your approach. Think about the parts of the story that your main character won't see. Is there another character you can think of, who 'would' see these things happen? If so, then simply create a minor POV character and let them narrate those separate scenes. If the same minor character will be present at several of these scenes, so much the better. If this minor character interacts with your main character at some point, that will make the story seem more coherent—so see if you can create one of these minor characters. This happens all the time in fiction. It's neither new nor difficult to pull off. Remember 'main character (MC)' and 'point-of-view (POV) character' are NOT necessarily the same things. The main character is the person whose life we are examining in the story, and who changes the most, or is most affected by what happens in the story. The POV character is the person who narrates any given scene, or who 'shows' us the scene happening from his/her perspective. Many many many many books exist where the POV character is not the 'main character.' (I just finished reading one of these ...the Cicero Trilogy by Robert Harris. Cicero is the 'main character' but the story is narrated by his slave/secretary, whose personal story isn't all that important to the overall plot.) If your extra scenes are merely events of historical importance to your story, then you CAN separate them out and write them up as 'histories.' Be careful with this approach, though, because you don't want to create a boring infodump. But if you present them separately within the story (as short interludes, rather than chapters) that can also work. But I do favour the 'minor POV character' approach, myself. It's done all the time, and can make these extra scenes just as immediate and exciting to read as the scenes containing your main character. This does, however, mean you need to rethink your storytelling plan a bit. Adding in another character can enhance the story a lot, actually. So don't dismiss that route out of hand. Instead, think ...if these scenes are important to the story you are telling, then who would be IN those scenes? Play around with them a bit, and see what you get. Whatever you do, don't just sit and get frustrated because what you originally thought of doing isn't working. Instead, continue to make changes to your plan till the problem no longer exists. There is nothing more satisfying, really, than solving a thorny problem. And problems can always be solved.
Okay! So switching pov isn't head hopping, cus I was told I did that a lot when I first tried doing this sort of thing about 3 years back. Its alright to alternate between pov as long as they're distinct chapters?
Yes. The term 'head hopping' usually refers to unintentional switches of POV within a scene. If you switch POV between scenes, just make sure the reader knows that the POV character has changed. Make the transition clear (using names is good), and you will have no problem. Folks are used to this kind of approach to storytelling.
Head hopping is a term used to mean, a passage written in third person limited suddenly, without notice, switching perspectives. Point of View (POV) changes will tend to happen after a scene break, or a chapter break. Either option is fine. Brandon Sanderson's Elantris uses 3 POVs between chapter breaks. (third person limited) In third person omniscient, there's no need to switch perspectives only after a scene/chapter break and you can do so within the narrative at any point, but it takes more skill to ensure it's clear whose perspective you're in now. Clarity is key. Omniscient POVs will usually have a unique "narrator's" voice that is distinct from the characters themselves. The narrator can be a "character" in and of itself, without being a physical person in the story and offer its opinion on the action etc. I'd say Perfume by Patrick Suskind is an excellent example of this, with a very witty narrator. Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere is also third person omniscient and done skillfully - very smooth transition without once being confusing. Lee Child also use omniscient in his latest novel, Midnight Line, but I personally find his switches clumsy at best. Not a good example to emulate. Plenty of books use multiple POVs - my suggestion is, since you're clearly a bit confused about this, read a few books where multiple POVs are used to good effect and see how that's done. In my current WIP, I have 4 key POV characters, and 2 minor POVs that exist because there's literally no other way I can show important action that only happens to those 2 particular minor characters. I'm not published, but neither of my alpha readers have had a problem so far.