1. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    How much distance does your narrator have?

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by deadrats, Nov 4, 2018.

    My novel is in first person and I've already given my MC some distance. Very few but I do have brief moments of reflection. A business that fails a year after my MC is there. A relationship that is serious but doomed. A search for the unobtainable. And I've reached a point where I had to catch myself. I wanted to clue the reader into something that would happen in five years. That is outside the scope of my novel. I don't know if I need it or not, but my gut wants me to include it.

    So, this has me thinking about how much distance we give a narrator, how much insight to they have into the future, how much hindsight to the have from the present narrative. I think you can have different levels of narrative dissent in any point of view. In first person you have to think a little of how this character would tell this story after any sort of given time passes. And that's sort of the question. How much time has gone by before your story is told? I think constancy in this leads to consistency in voice. At least for me that helps, but until now I haven't really questioned the consistency of my narrative distance. Do you predetermine your narrative distance? Are there any tips or tricks to making sure there is consistency?
     
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  2. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I don't know much about the options. Almost everything I read, most of the pop genre YouTube echo chamber, and so almost everything I write, all aim for this idea that whatever is on the page happened either right now, or a moment ago, depending on present vs. past tense. Reactions stay in real time, and nothing can be shown outside the scope of what the character knows and is thinking of. I'd go so far to say that the whole idea of a writer's "voice" is flattened by the idea of character voice, because people want to be so close to the character the writer disappears.

    My feeling is that stepping outside of that ridged outlook requires a platform, because without publication credits or fame, feedback will always be, "I noticed you aren't adhering to the convention, which would only be possible if it is on accident, because you are sloppy."

    You're further along the path and have been published/write well, so I imagine you could have different amounts of narrative distance or peaks into the past or future, and just stand on your pride when it's pointed out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  3. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I could care less about any writer voice I might have. Honestly, I'm not even sure what a writer voice really means. When I was in grad school I had a professor tell me I had found my voice after reading a story by me after reading several stories by me where he had said nothing about my so-called voice. What I am concerned with is my character's voice since I chose a first person POV. And I'm not talking about writing things this character wouldn't know about. It's more like my narrator saying something along the lines of "I had know idea at the time that in five years Bobby would move to Europe and I would never see him again."

    I think this makes it clear that the narrator (my POV character) is telling the story from a time long after the events of my novel actually take place. It's all past tense, but it is deeper in the past than I usually go with this tense. I don't think I'm going outside any box with this. Different degrees of narrative distance can be seen from novel to novel. I'm not trying to do anything groundbreaking or something that hasn't been done before. I kind of want my readers to know everything falls apart after the novel ends. I have no idea how the story will end, but I'm coming across things I know I want to happen outside the duration of my novel. I don't know how much sense that makes.

    @John Calligan -- Thanks for the only response. I don't think publishers are anti breaking convention. I think you just can't be sloppy when you do it. :)
     
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  4. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I think there is a difference between 'narrator' and POV character.

    Narrator implies distance. A narrator is a person telling us a story in a fairly direct fashion, often with asides, observations, hints at what is to come, or insight into things the characters themselves don't see or don't understand. This narrator might be the author (or a neutral 'voice'), or a character in the story who is looking back on events or observing events. If you're writing a narrator, then you would have the narrator pick the best time for the story to 'happen'—and they can allow hindsight to creep in. In a movie, the 'narrator' is a voice-over. It's not all that different in a written story. The narrator may be unreliable as a guide, but they are tangibly 'there.'

    POV, however, is a bit more subtle. POV allows the reader to directly experience what the POV character experiences, without the added tidbits of insight or overview of what the events mean. It's like a movie without the voice-over. The POV character may come to conclusions, but the author doesn't draw those conclusions for the reader. Nobody is guiding the reader in this kind of story. If the POV character doesn't see something, feel an emotion, or experience an event, or draw any conclusions, then those things are not directly referenced. The reader has to do a lot more work when a narrator isn't present. At the same time, the feeling of identification with the POV character and immersion in the events of the story is worth the extra effort it takes to 'get' the meaning behind the story.
     
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  5. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    My POV character and my narrator are the same since I am writing in first person. But I hear what you're saying.
     
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  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I usually think of a first person 'narrator' as a person who is slightly removed from the events of the story. The person who is looking back on their life or events that shaped them, etc. It's hard to put into words, but they seem like storytellers to me, and I hear them more than I see them. The mere fact that they are narrating a story means they have survived, in some way. So there is that kind of distance. No matter how bad things get, the fact that this "I" character is telling the story means they've lived to tell the tale. However fascinating the tale may be, I find it devoid of a certain kind of jeopardy.

    Third person is oddly less distanced for me, because I am seeing, hearing, feeling and understanding the POV character in 'real time,' without any guidance or hindsight. And I truly don't know if the POV character will survive or not.
     
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  7. sean robins

    sean robins Member

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  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    @sean robins,

    Re: “Can I please ask how you create this "it happened a moment ago" sense in past tense? I have been struggling with this question for a while. How does the reader know the story didn't happen 50 years ago?”

    I’m hampered in answering this myself, because “it just happened” is my default reading of third person past tense. It doesn’t occur that me to imagine anything else unless the author has some specific frame story, or intrudes with “little did he know” remarks, or otherwise signal a lack of immediacy.

    So for me, this is achieved by refraining from those things. The story doesn’t need to be written significantly different from a present tense story.

    All of which makes me wonder if perhaps most of your reading of modern fiction has been present tense and most of your past tense reading has been older, maybe academically-required, maybe omniscient POV, novels?
     
  9. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah, I think most people read past tense as in the moment, unless the narrator says, "let me tell you a story of yesteryear," or something.
     
  10. sean robins

    sean robins Member

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    Nope:) now that you said it, unless there are things like "I later found out" or "This was the last time ..", I also assume it has just happened:)

    Any ideas what else would create this it-happened-a-long-time-ago sense?

    Would be neat if we could find a method to emphasize the story's immediacy though:)
     
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  11. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    You mean like... present-tense? ;)
     
  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    See, I've never found present tense to increase a story's immediacy.
     
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