1. JadeX

    JadeX Senior Member

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    Plausibly anachronistic technology in a fantasy setting?

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by JadeX, Dec 18, 2020.

    The great thing about developing a fantasy setting is being able to make things differ from reality, and one of the most visible ways to do this is by playing with the setting's level of technological advancement.

    What I mean by "plausibly anachronistic" technology is technology that could have theoretically existed before it actually did in the real world.

    For a great example of this: barbed wire. Metal wire has existed since the BCs, yet nobody had the idea to twist and cut portions of it to use as a barrier until the 1860s. But in a fantasy setting, which is not dependent on when things were actually invented, there's no reason you can't have centurion-style warriors fortifying their positions with barbed wire - because technology developed differently in that fantasy world. It would be entirely plausible and consistent with their level of advancement, even if it doesn't entirely line up with our own real world.

    What are some other examples of things that could have existed earlier than they did, that fantasy writers can take advantage of?
     
  2. IasminDragon

    IasminDragon Member

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    The industrial revolution could have happened in Ancient Greece. It just wasn't practical.
     
  3. MartinM

    MartinM Banned

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    A bit steam punk, but works...

    First the Roman Empire survived its military crisis beyond 300 AD. This in turn meant the dark ages between the 5th and 10th century didn’t occur. These lost 500years were considered an evolutionary step backwards for the humans. Take out them 500years and the industrial revelation happens earlier. The telephone becomes common place by 1805. Air travel by 1850 and the internet by 1920...

    Notice the internet evolution 1920 instead of 1990 is only 70 years. This takes into account the logarithmic acceleration of one discovery leading onto another. By the year 2100 them 500years would have dissolved in impact...

    Its not quite what you asked, but does bring up some interesting thoughts with Roman families the power houses of Europe with Guns etc...

    Just a thought...


    MartinM
     
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  4. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Anything could have existed earlier, if you can think of a plausible enough reason for them to do so.

    There's no reason Aristotle or Archimedes couldn't have come up with the scientific method, and a lot stems from there.
     
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  5. halisme

    halisme Contributor Contributor

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    The thing that most people do not seem to understand is that technological progress is not linear. It is whatever humans are capable of coming up with using the current tools in their environment. While there are some dependencies (you probably need metal for electrical goods, unless you have some means of manipulating graphite, why hello earth magic), humans are pretty creative and will engineer ways to make their lives more convenient naturally.
     
  6. Lazaares

    Lazaares Contributor Contributor

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    *Internal economist screams*

    There are some technologies people just didn't think about. Most of these came around in the early-to-mid 19th century when landmark inventions pretty much happened every year. Reason for that is the "invention" of intellectual rights, patents and protection thereto. Suddenly, inventing things was a safe & sound road to fame and fortune.

    A nice example is pencil sharpeners. Technically, clockwork existed for it and pencils were sort-of a thing before that. Another thing is a Catamaran. They just ... weren't thought of until a guy saw them in Oceania and decided it could make a good racing boat design.

    Exploring these lil' inventions is a nice thing.
     
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  7. Accelerator231

    Accelerator231 Contributor Contributor

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    That's possible. The question is that not only is metal extremely expensive in the modern world, but also the sheer number of man-hours needed to make barbed wire. Sure, you can make barbed wire bales... but you might as well just created ramparts of rammed earth, which are cheaper, easier, and also lets you spend the metal elsewhere.

    This is actually a thing that people often overlook.

    Things that aren't technology and yet are anachronistic. Stuff you wouldn't normally see in fantasy stories.

    It's possible to be iron-age and have things like public education, a large centralized state with the attendant bureaucracy, and governmental control. Especially with some creative things like a good crops and source of agriculture and good irrigation.

    How about this? Shake up the social and political situation. Alter stuff. Shift the geopolitical things. Instead of rescuing a princess, why don't you rescue a school trip of university students who had been exploring some ruins? Maybe instead of being hired by a feudal lord to clear out some bandits, you're instead hired by the nearby magistrate as a city contract? Maybe part of the problems is getting a license for adventuring, and mighty thews are no match for bureaucracy.

    Have things like 'research departments'. Entire groups of smart people devoted to things like better irrigation and improving farming tools or streamlining supply lines. Sure, they're clad in robes and use parchment and clay and live in iron age, but that doesn't change the fact that's what they're doing.
     
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  8. Javelineer

    Javelineer Active Member

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    I remember a short story where Julius Ceasar invents the ball-point pen. Amusing thought.

    The stirrup and the hames-and-collar harness always struck me as something that could have been invented at any point after the domestication of animals. And it seems that any settled, literate society could theoretically have a printing press. Any of those would be as revolutionary to any society that develops them as they were to our own.
     
  9. Javelineer

    Javelineer Active Member

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    Historically, barbed wire was most useful in areas with a lack of useful lumber for fences (livestock management) or abatis (military fortification).
     
  10. Accelerator231

    Accelerator231 Contributor Contributor

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    Any settled literate society could theoretically have a printing press, but the devil's in the details.

    Not only do you need a printing press, but you must also have good enough materials science. Not just for the press, but for printing materials too. Because like hell you're going to print dime novels on parchment. In other words, you need paper. And you need a literate population that's got something they want to read (at first) so it isn't a waste of money. Whether it's buddha's tracts, or the holy bible. And you've got to have a good language. I know chinese, and I know English. And let me tell you, chinese printing and reading is a nightmare.

    And last but not least, you need people who aren't working in the fields for food and are able to read.
     
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  11. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    I would have to point out that there are reasons for a lot of seemingly illogical or random things, so you need to understand those if you want to change how technology was used.

    For example, barbed wire which you mention. Romans could produce wire (look at some of their jewelry!) and yes, they could have produced barbed wire... but why would they have done so? Producing so much wire is difficult in preindustrial society.Also, it simply isn't needed. The reason you won't (or rather, shouldn't) have legionaries fortifying their positions with barbed wire is because it doesn't work in the context. Barbed wire was used in modern warfare because it is difficult to destroy with even artillery bombardment, which means that it would be there when soldiers got out of shelters and into trenches to oppose the enemy assault. But Romans didn't have gunpowder artillery, and didn't have trenches. Fighting was done with swords, spears, javelins and bows. Why bother producing barbed wire in such conditions, when wooden pallisade works far better?

    This of course doesn't mean that you couldn't have plausibly anachronistic technology. A lot of development was just missed, though even that could have had a reason. For example, Romans only adapted stirrups rather late - they got it from Sarmatians, I think. I don't know why - it might have been because, at the time, they simply didn't use cavalry all that much, or missile cavalry at any rate (melee cavalry doesn't actually require stirrups, at least until you get to lancers). Or maybe it was an accident. But that is something you need to figure out if you are going to change it.
     
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  12. Accelerator231

    Accelerator231 Contributor Contributor

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    Remember.

    No steam engine. No electronics. No power machines.

    Everything is made by hand. Everything. You want that stone block? Better get a horsecart, or carry it. Want a sword? Someone's going to have to hammer it out. Want a hammer? Someone's going to have to make it personally for you, and there ain't no assembly line to crank them out by the thousands. You're going to have to get it custom-made. Want iron? I hope you like cutting down trees by hand, lugging them, and then trying to make the fire hot enough to make iron. You want a cart? Better get it made. By Hand. Yup. Cut down a tree, slowly and painstakingly use hand tools to cut it to size, put them together, and then assemble them into a cart.

    Remember, there isn't a tool shop. There isn't assembly lines dumping down entire crate's worth of power tools for you to use. There aren't entire supply lines dedicated to bringing you the materials. Everything is by hand. And that makes the entire thing slow down to a crawl. Want iron? Dig with a shovel. You want to hammer metal? There's no CNC machine. Bring a hammer. Not even a lathe.

    There's also the presence of famine to consider. A society living hand to mouth is going to be very conservative. And that describes most of human existence until the agricultural revolution.
     
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