Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117

    Please stop with forced female heroines

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by King Arthur, Jun 23, 2016.

    Write a good hero character, then cut his cock off. You have a good female heroine.

    Make a character stereotypically female and strong for no reason just to appeal to feminists and you have a boring protagonist. (Star Wars VII, Star Wars Rogue One, I'm sure there are other examples).

    If you're going to have a female heroine (please do) please do her right.

    http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311
     
    Sack-a-Doo!, jannert and Oscar Leigh like this.
  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Bad day?
     
  3. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    Only when people post useless comments on my threads. (Notwithstanding my OP of course)
     
  4. Mordred85

    Mordred85 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    75
    Makes sense
     
  5. AdDIct

    AdDIct Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Palmdale
    that comic strip is kinda true though lol
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  6. Nicoel

    Nicoel Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    343
    How about: write a good strong lead hero. Then assign cock or boobs as desired.
     
  7. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    That works.
     
    Tenderiser, Oscar Leigh and Nicoel like this.
  8. Miller0700

    Miller0700 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    437
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Care to explain?
     
  9. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    So Starbuck from the BSG reboot. Smokes cigars, plays poker, gets tattoos, drinks too much hard liquor and punches out her superior officer. Twice the man that Han Solo ever was, despite those incovenient lumps of fat on her chest.

    It worked well, but I don't think I'd want all my heroines to be quite that macho.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  10. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    Can you have a male heroine??? :confused::confused::confused:
     
    Tenderiser and Oscar Leigh like this.
  11. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,243
    Location:
    Australia
    You can mail heroin
     
    Fara, BayView, halisme and 7 others like this.
  12. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,282
    Likes Received:
    5,805
    Location:
    On the Road.
    Uhm.. on the off chance to come over strange but I actually don't know anymore where the difference between male and female lies - disregarding body parts. Sure, there are some personality traits that are more common in females than in males and vice versa, but they are certainly not set in stone.
     
  13. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,243
    Location:
    Australia
    I liked Rey.
     
  14. Auger

    Auger Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    149
    Location:
    20,000 lightyears under the sea
    The problem is not the oversaturation of boring female protagonists, but simply the oversaturation of boring protagonists. It's just that the emerging feminist demographic will buy anything with a female hero who can smack a dude in the face.
     
    AdDIct and Romana like this.
  15. AdDIct

    AdDIct Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Palmdale
    How about just treating every character as a developed character regardless of gender then you dont have this problem anywhere lol
     
    LilyJade, BayView, Tenderiser and 3 others like this.
  16. AdDIct

    AdDIct Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Palmdale
    Not to make this a debate on Star Wars, but just my two cents on VII. While I'm personally indifferent towards Rey and believe the protagonist could be argued into being Finn (who was by far the more interesting character) and Rey equally due to the fact they have pretty much even relevance and screen time in the movie, honestly I think it had bigger issues than a "boring protagonist." My biggest beef with the movie was simply the fact that it was horrendously predictable. I won't go into any details in case people HAVENT seen the movie. But I believe many of those who have would agree that many of the plot points where mere replications of previous movies redone in fancy cgi and with slightly different faces.

    That's how I feel as well. Characters just aren't developed enough to be eye catching, regardless of their assigned genders. If every character is thought of as its own distinct instrument and treated as such we wouldn't have this issue.
     
    jannert and Oscar Leigh like this.
  17. Lilly James Haro

    Lilly James Haro The Grey Warden

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Kirkwall, Free Marches, Thedas
    I think it is more that female characters are more subject to criticism for being boring as there are fewer whereas due to the large amount of male protagonists, we can just ignore one boring guy because there are many more well written ones being shown. We would be in the same situation if men were a minority in literature instead of women.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
    LilyJade, King Arthur, KPMay and 4 others like this.
  18. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    2,111
    Every hero has a target audience and right now feminists are a pretty big group worth writing for.
    Besides, everyone needs heroes, even feminists. And that type of character isn't boring to them, or else they wouldn't watch.
     
    Fara and ManOrAstroMan like this.
  19. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8,496
    Likes Received:
    5,120
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    My stepfather called it "the best Star Wars fanfiction he'd ever seen." Keyword; fan-fiction. So yeah, I agree with you. Very recycled.
     
  20. Auger

    Auger Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    149
    Location:
    20,000 lightyears under the sea
    Good point. When subjectivity is taken out of the equation, statistical popularity is what makes or breaks a story.
     
    Oscar Leigh and Mumble Bee like this.
  21. AdDIct

    AdDIct Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Palmdale
    Eh that's debatable. I know not to long ago when there was less of an acceptance towards LGBT characters in television, I'd oft find myself watching a show simply for the one gay storyline in it. It wouldnt even necessarily be very good, it was merely all I could get my hands on so I took what I could get.

    Yes everyone needs heroes but if people are only putting out crappy heroes you take what you can get. Of course the argument could be made to simply not buy the books and demand better characters but that could go in many directions. 1) people simply stop publishing those books for lack of sales 2) they actually listen and try to be more selective with what's given 3) they listen but cant do anything about it because all they get are crap characters with decent storylines or 4) the people protesting get so fed up with waiting for a book with a character they actually want to read they write it themselves and either a) finish it b) realize writing a story is more difficult then they thought and back off or c) write the story but due to the lack of popularity within the genre begin the long and arduous route of self publishing and promotion.

    I'm no expert on any of this and I'm sure there are more contingencies that could be made than those options but to me they're the obvious and most likely for the current situation.

    I think while this thread is an example of beginning seeds of a form of protest it's nowhere near powerful enough on its own to truly make a difference. And also realistically unless something is BLATANTLY offensive and not just badly written people are still going to treat it as whatever.

    Couldn't have said it better myself
     
    Lilly James Haro likes this.
  22. TheApprentice

    TheApprentice Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    155
    Don't be mad, Hatin is bad
     
  23. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    Nail. Head.

    I read a blog recently, by a female author no less, explaining why she prefers male MCs because she's more forgiving of flaws in men than women. She didn't mind alpha-hole stereotypical masculine men but she hated both girly girls and strong women. All the (mostly women) in the comments agreed with her.

    Depressing.
     
  24. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,764
    Likes Received:
    5,393
    Location:
    Funland
    It's probably a good idea to simply focus on writing well-rounded characters. I do think female characters are judged more harshly though. I guess there's all that feminist baggage people tend to react negatively to ("behind every female character, there's a sinister misandrist agenda"), thus judging too quickly well put-together characters. The parameters set by activists and media critics also tend to be strict. Not too sexy. Not too thin. Not too timid. Not too helpless. Not too mary sue. It can be intimidating.

    I'm not sure why my good character would have a cock by default though.

    Then I shall depress you further. :p I too tend to find stories about men / centered around men more interesting. It's not like a sausage fest is automatically better, but I gravitate towards them.

    Girly girls disinterest me because I don't like things that are usually considered "girly". These so-called strong women sometimes irk me because they're often written by people who don't know much about stuff they think make a woman strong, like martial arts, weapons etc. Combine that with an attitude I consider bitchy (too in-your-face) and I lose interest.

    With male characters, I'm more fascinated than irked if he has a bad attitude. Again, it's a preference.

    But I still write female characters every now and then, and do my best to make them interesting and well-rounded. I sent them on a journey and watch them grow and develop. They could still read forced to someone; just writing a woman can cause that reaction in some people, but honestly, I've run out of fucks to give.
     
    Lilly James Haro and Oscar Leigh like this.
  25. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    Yeah, that does depress me further. :( I hope people who don't like female characters examine their reasons and prejudices and try to do something about it instead of just shrugging.
     
    Lilly James Haro and Oscar Leigh like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice