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  1. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Plural gender neutral greeting after "Dear"

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Wreybies, Aug 4, 2017.

    Brain broken. Cannot think. I know there is a plural contracted form that is used in greetings (as in Dear Sir or Dear Madam), and it's something like Msrss or Mesrss, or some dealie like that and I cannot for the life of me remember it and I am clearly really far off the correct spelling because google is proving no help.

    Anyone?
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin Funky like your grandpa's drawers.... Staff Contributor

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    No clue. I would think there's a more contextually specific group salutation that would trump that in most cases, no? Like Friends, Shareholders, or Valued Customers?
     
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  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    In this case I cannot reach that far away from the original context. It's not for my writing. It's for a legal translation project I am working. In the original Spanish, the person simply wrote "Estimados," which means esteemed, but English wants there to be some kind of noun after that. There are only a few situations in English where a participle can serve as a noun, such as "the Accused". Spanish allows this for pretty much any participle. Like, if is a victim is found lying on the floor, it's perfectly fine in Spanish to refer to him or her as "el tirado" which literally means "the thrown [person]".

    But never mind, I found it. :) Messrs. (though I thought it was neutral, but I am wrong. It's plural masculine)
     
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  4. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Mx is the gender neutral version of Mr or Mrs. As a title it's pronounced like Mix, but it's generally reserved for people that don't define themselves as binary. Comrade also works, but carries certain inferences with it that some people are uncomfortable with.
     
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  5. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's all good. I found what I needed, eventually. Terrible speller. Google often balks at helping me. Again, it's a legal translation so the dynamics of creative writing really don't apply as conversations herein typically engage. Mx would be unacceptable in the world of jurisprudence. Mine is not to agree, but only to comply.
     
  6. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Wish I could help, but I default to - to whom it may concern.
     
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  7. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    And that was my original choice, but... Sometimes it just depends on the AUSA making the request. AUSA is another term for DA. Some of them want you to opt for closest corresponding; some of them stick to a draconian mindset as regards altering even the slightest bit of contextual information. Today's AUSA is of the latter persuasion. o_O
     
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  8. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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  9. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Sounds fun o_O
     
  10. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah... It's like a dance and everyone wants to lead. :wtf:
     
  11. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    That leaves room for a lot of toes to be stepped on. :(
     
  12. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'm glad I work in a profession where "Hi" is usually sufficient.
     
  13. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It happens, but it's part and parcel of the job. Explaining to juridical types why hasty and quickly do not mean the same thing is an everyday occurrence.
     
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  14. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Oh boy - I do not envy you. I would tire of that quickly, and make a hasty get away!:p
     
  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Esteemed friends would work ... its not a customary English greeting but its used sometimes and its close to the spanish meaning
     
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  16. Bill Chester

    Bill Chester Active Member

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  17. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Gays have called me dear, I considered it affectionate. They even got me into bed twice.
     
  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I don't know. Esteemed friends would come across as WAY too familiar in certain settings ...like a job application letter, or something like that. If it became generally accepted as a form of neutral address in non-personal communications, then it would work well ...but until it does, I think it would clang the wrong bells. Friends? We're not your friends, you presumptuous wee worm. I think we need a new word. Messrs was fine, back when business was mostly male-conducted, but now that it's not, we need a new word.
     
  19. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Valued acquaintances?
     
  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    This is true but you wouldn't use Estemas in that circumstance either
     
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  21. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    If it's an accepted greeting for these occasions in Spanish, then it works in a Spanish context—but it doesn't necessarily translate that way into the English idiom. I mean, look at 'dear.' We've accepted that as a good way to begin a letter, even though the person often isn't 'dear' to us at all. It's all down to what is accepted for a given situation, and I'm afraid these things aren't always translatable by simply choosing the same word in a different language. The connotations can be quite different.
     
  22. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    Wait, did pinky come back... and he's already banned?
     
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  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    yeah that was a real tour deforce on how not to return after a ban
     
  24. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    In the Spanish idiom, as regards the heading of letters and correspondence, esteemed takes the place of dear. The correct translation in Spanish for dear would be querido, and you are correct @jannert, that is familiar in the extreme, in Spanish. We would never use that in business or more professional settings. You would use that for a loved one, family, in that vein. So, yes, knowing these nuances and understanding when to employ and deploy them is a good part of the job. The word I needed is defo Messrs., and while I agree that its failure at being gender neutral in a plural greeting makes it less than desirable in this day and age, there is also the simple fact of conventions. In the legal world, the wanted translation is Messrs., I was just bungling the spelling so badly that both google and spellcheck gave me a frosty shoulder as regards helping me.
     
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  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    so you made a mess of messrs, making you a messing messr :D

    Incidentally the female version is Mmdes (as in mesmedemes)
     

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