Political Threads and Forum Behavior

Sorry, JJ, but much as you want to, you just can't have it both ways:

Sigh, whenever I use the word, 'outrage', it confuses people and I don't have a better word that fits as well. I'm not talking hissy-fit outrage, I'm talking it-feels-wrong outrage.



As for JJ's right to his religious beliefs, of course he has a right to them. He just doesn't have a right to pretend calling a homosexual immoral is not an insult because God loves and forgives sinners. He is welcome to apologize if his beliefs are insulting. He just isn't welcome to claim his statements about his beliefs, in this case, are not insults to other people.

And JJ is not allowed to say

and

without being called on it.

 

[MENTION=53143]GingerCoffee[/MENTION]

While it's different than what I originally posted in the topic about, I am astounded at how you continually badger JJ. You realize the guy is a hardcore Christian, right? And that most Christian theology believes homosexuality is sinful, based on passages from the Bible? Ergo, he is simply stating what most Christians believe. You can disagree (as I do) or find it abhorrent (as you seem to), but what is the point of pestering him?

To get him to reject his Christian belief? Or for him to keep those beliefs to himself? By the way, I wonder if you're as tireless in confronting Muslims in real life (a religion that believes homosexuals should be stoned to death) as you are with Christians over the Internet (who calls it "immoral"). Are you?

 

I'm curious - isn't immorality that which violates a moral law? If one considers engaging in homosexuality to be immoral, then that act becomes a violation of morality. But people have different views on morality, and live by different moral laws, and there is nothing irrational or unreasonable about being able to respect or even love a person despite of them leading a lifestyle which involves immoral acts in your eyes. One immoral act doesn't have to make the entire person "bad", "evil" or "wrong" in the eyes of the one with this moral view. Additionally, one immoral thing may be viewed as less immoral than another, and the degree of immorality may even vary within that one act or trait itself. For example, I view dishonesty as immoral, but I distinguish between different kinds of dishonesty, the extent and magnitude of the dishonesty, and the reasons behind them. On the other hand, I find murder to be far more immoral - although even there, it is not so clear cut, depending on the circumstances and reasons behind the murder.

I'm not sure if the expression of one's view that engaging in homosexuality is immoral is necessarily an insult. It certainly places negative value on that act, and therefore on the person who engages in it. That doesn't mean that someone who views it as immoral automatically devalues that person.

I must admit, in the face of biological homosexuality, it is a bit unjustified to refer to homosexuality as immoral. That would no different than saying that a certain gender, a congenital mental disorder or perhaps even schizophrenia is immoral. Morality must necessarily be based on choice or something that one has control over.

Of course, people are free to disagree with me, and may make exceptions or apply what is to me flawed reasoning to reach a conclusion that they base their beliefs on, but they are free to do this all the same.

 

I agree.

[MENTION=53143]GingerCoffee[/MENTION]: I'm surprised at you. Just because someone sees you in a way you don't see yourself doesn't mean anything objectively, other than the simple fact that you are being judged by a different set of standards than how you judge yourself and others. It's not something to get upset about, it shouldn't mean anything, and if you don't hold to that worldview why does it matter? This is the entire point of diversity and tolerance.

You might not like the other viewpoint but please remain respectful.

I am a convinced atheist, and I have an actually largely anti-religious world view. But that doesn't stop me from admiring religious art, or understanding a religious world view, or even being able to appreciate that even though I don't believe it or hold to it myself, the religious person at least has the courage of their own convictions and believes in it themselves. Some people's ideas are at the center of their entire world, and to argue against that is to argue against their entire existence. Why should you argue against that?

If everyone thought the same the world would be a much more boring place.

It is this sort of hostility to others that was the point of this thread in the first place. I'm closing it for at least a few days to let everyone cool down.