Post-scarcity Utopian society devolves into a totalitarian empire

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by LordWarGod, Nov 3, 2018.

Tags:
  1. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    No, "Xenomorph" is a blanket term to describe all aliens, mostly used by people who hate them and became popular when the Dark Days/Great War broke out. There are an unimaginable amount of civilizations in my universe and the humans barely have any contact with them save for the ones that are local to their sector of the universe. Sorry for the confusion!

    But then these people have to rebuild during a huge war where most of the land is completely uninhabitable and must flee to land that is habitable and that land is incredibly small. Resources allocation and the lack of available resources to mine around them would make it impossible for people to go back to rebuilding civilization as it was before. Not to mention, it's been possibly decades since the war happened and by then, several generations of children have been born who do not know the world before the war happened.

    In my world, quintillions of people are crammed into a very small space and are pretty much cornered by Xenomorphs and the demon legions. Crime goes through the roof, riots/protests everywhere, starving people resort to cannibalism out of desperation while everybody alive doesn't even know about the past. Professions are different, cultures are different, ambition or desires are different and there is a totalitarian regime that controls everybody and what they do. If the royal family does not want civilization to rebuild, all they need to do is to simply not reveal any knowledge or technology and intentionally keep them in the dark ages. Since they were immortal and powerful, they lived for many thousands of years.

    That's exactly why it would be impossible to rebuild, there isn't anyone alive that knows anything about the old world or has any knowledge of the old world. Not only that but innovation and creativity would not only get you in trouble with the authorities but also be really difficult with strained resources, criminal gangs/cartels, a huge war that has galaxies disappearing, demon legions that swarm and eat everything and no available libraries for information to educate themselves.

    What technology the royal family chooses to give to the civilization is what they'll receive. The Wreath is a weaponized gamma ray burst, it's the only thing left from the old world they have and that's because the royal family gave it to them. They've reverse engineered a lot of that technology to produce some technology but nothing they created was ever as powerful as what they had in the Enlightenment Era. Think soviet technology mixed with reverse engineered future technology, they have powerful technology but the actual technology they reverse engineer they have no clue how to use or what the purpose was so they just use it for their own purposes that make it far weaker.

    So for example, a Dyson Ring would've just been used to create a very limited power source of a warship than it's original purpose to produce tons of energy for a civilization. A Wreath used to be able to destroy huge sectors of space but it's limited to just a star system or a galaxy now.
     
  2. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    384
    Location:
    Rotorua, New Zealand
    Hi,

    The only way that I can see the rest of the thirty galaxies not having some civilizations able to rebuild the technology, is if they never had it in the first place. If somehow these demon lords completely controlled the tech they gave before the fall so that it was impossible for the others to understand it. They could master turning the switches on and off but had absolutely no education in the tech itself. I don't know how that would happen. Otherwise it's simply a matter of numbers. There are simply so many civilizations out there that some of them must have worked out how to build / rebuild it.

    And your wreath gamma ray weapon, actually requires greater levels of technology to use as a weapon if it's less effective. Don't forget gamma rays only travel at the speed of light so if the weapon can only irradiate a single system at a time you need more of them, more spaceships, faster FTL travel etc etc to destroy a galaxy. Think of it like once having had an airforce and bombs to destroy your barbarian neighbours, so you could just kill them all. Now all you've got left are rifles, which means you need a lot of them, some method by which your rifle wielding soldiers can cart them into battle across your barbarian neighbour's realm to achieve the same effect as one plane with a bomb.

    By the way, it strikes me as an unreal weapon. Remember the light speed restriction. If a galaxy is a hundred thousand light years across, your wreath can't irradiate a galaxy in under a hundred thousand years.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  3. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    You see, human beings didn't operate that technology, they did nothing with it. Once the early humans created that technology, they designed it with no human input in mind and left it alone to do its job. Humans didn't know how to use any of it because they were never involved in any of that stuff anymore, it was an Utopian society where virtually nobody worked or did any kind of creating. It was the "peak" for them, complete harmony.

    So of course it was easy for a small group of people to control an ignorant and careless society that had no clue about the outside world. Think of the fat humans from Wall-E, they never gave a fuck about anything but what they were focused on. The royal family stage attacks on several galaxies which eradicate them and have their machine system notify people that it was the Xenomorphs that did it, they immediately believe in it because they know no better. Fear grips them, they call for war to eradicate their enemies and this starts the big war but it didn't all happen at once. It wasn't just one big attack and everybody goes apeshit, it was a series of attacks over the years that pushed people over the edge and made them scared for their own security.

    Then after thousands of years of their machine constructs going over to the Xenomorphs and committing acts of genocide against entire civilizations, more powerful Xenomorph civilizations begin to attack the humans and other Xenomorphs begin to attack those Xenomorphs because nobody has a fucking clue what's going on. Galaxies are disappearing, civilizations that lived for millions of years are gone and everybody is worried about their survival. Of course people begin to attack each other because they're worried that they're next in line to get wiped out by whoever is the main perpetrator of the war.

    The human civilization begin to lose tons of ground, 28 of their galaxies are gone, octillions of refugees flood cities straining resources and living space, aliens are invading worlds to take for themselves or star systems to use the star for energy. The royal family achieve their goal, the universe is rife with war and the Dark Gods open a portal to allow the demon legions in, it is literally the fucking Apocalypse and the violence is amped up to the max. Several civilizations destroy galaxies not to fight other Xenomorphs but because the demon legions consume those galaxies and grow even more powerful so it's the only way to halt them. At this point, it's just a matter of time before the demons do consume everything in the universe.

    On those refugee ships that transported people, hundreds of generations of humans are born, uneducated and literally fighting for survival. Quintillions of people board a ship, 3/4 of that population survive when they finally arrive on a planet barely, most are cannibals, criminals, psychopaths or just shit scared people that have no clue why they're on the ship in the first place after so many centuries of floating throughout space. You won't find a single scientist amongst them, not a single person that knew of the old world and its technology.

    This problem amplifies significantly when these refugees DO arrive on planets because they're already overpopulated due to a lack of planets to migrate to.

    You don't need to travel to use a Wreath, when it is fired, a specific place will be marked and it will instantly explode in that place without needing to travel from the warship. Black holes are used to move warships without losing any time.

    Then perhaps I could change it so that it instantly sets off bursts in multiple areas of the galaxy that would make it almost instantaneous. The Wreath is powered by stars and there are roughly 500 billion stars in a galaxy, imagine of all of them set off a gamma ray burst.
     
  4. matwoolf

    matwoolf Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    6,053
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Whyever read a dystopian vision less stimulating or even as imaginative as the dystopian headlines of the present day?
     
    Some Guy likes this.
  5. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    Perhaps I'm trying to show that our world isn't as bad as we'd like to think it is. This world of mine is magnitudes worse than what reality has in store for us, maybe people will start seeing the signs and prevent another war from happening. Or perhaps people will learn to appreciate what they have and protect it, before it's too late.
     
    matwoolf likes this.
  6. matwoolf

    matwoolf Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    6,053
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Sorry @LordWarGod - I haven't yet got to grips with the thread. I was knee-jerking.

    Only, for me...you have to really take my breath in the prose, blow my little mind with the freshness of your...paint the pictures, I would adore that armchair ride. I might almost say Auel did it, but I never quite immersed in his stuff...only the covers...that's what I'm trying to say.

    But even 1984 is patchy. And I'm no sci-fi/fantasy expert.
     
    Some Guy likes this.
  7. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    The Dystopian nature of the High Sovereignty isn't even the main focus of my book. It's a part of the book but it isn't the only content in there. It's also not meant to be pleasant because that would defeat the purpose if people found stuff like this pleasant to read, it's meant to be unpleasant.
     
  8. Some Guy

    Some Guy People-thing Supporter

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,557
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Location:
    Boneless chicken ranch
    Sci-fi is awesome, isn't it? I love talking about it. You've got a hardcore beast here. I have some hardcore challenges for you.
    There may be some solutions to extra-galactic comms and travel, and possibly weaponry.
    I'd really like to see your story succeed. I'd like to help you avoid some of the mistakes I've made.
    So, I just need to ask a couple of questions.
    Would you be willing to stop defending your ideas, set aside the angst, and just talk about them?
    Would you be willing to stop selling and lecturing at people from your history book, and write an epic saga that would be lots of fun?
    PM me if the answer is yes. Prove to me that this thread did not die on Nov 9, 2018.
     
    NateSean likes this.
  9. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    I'm not sure what you're asking here? Are you asking me if I want to write a novel with you or something? I'm still confused after rereading this for the 10th time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    11,905
    Likes Received:
    12,497
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Your premise is awfully similar to Warhammer 40K, only on a bit bigger scale.
    However, you don't have super beings or psychers. But the overall concept is
    much the same as how things work in WH40K. And if you want to go in that
    direction, you might want to explore just how that whole dynamic works.
    The Imperium of Man is extremely xenophobic as well, and does whatever it
    can to eradicate them.
    Only difference I see, is that your premise doesn't start with the royals in power,
    but that they come to power much later in the story line.
     
  11. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    Oh yeah, I heard about Warhammer. Apparently they have monsters? Or something like that. I'm not sure what Warhammer is about exactly so I don't really know or understand how it's similar, could you explain why?
     
    Cave Troll likes this.
  12. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    11,905
    Likes Received:
    12,497
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    The Emperor of Man seizes control of Earth in the year 30K, and eradicates
    all religion (and consequently becomes worshiped as a god).
    The Imperium of Man inhabits millions of worlds in the galaxy. Either by simply
    finding them, or taking them from other species in the galaxy.
    They have vast resources that in theory would make them a post scarcity society,
    even though this is not the case once you start digging into the lore in the universe.
    They have advanced technology that they don't fully understand from the past, and
    treat it like 'magic', and have rituals and ceremonies when they manage to build a
    machine. From praying to a computer every day so that it won't crash, to blessing
    a Titan, and revering the machine spirits.

    Yes there is the fantasy elements such as the Chaos Gods, Daemons, and the Warp.
    And 'monsters' in a sense with the Tyranids, Orks, and whatnot. Though the Tyranids
    originated from another galaxy to begin with, and came to the Milkyway, after consuming
    all the bio-mass from the one they left.

    So in a nutshell, your concept spans a larger swath of space, xenophobia on an intergalactic
    scale, 20K years further into the future over time, and someone with power rising at a much
    later point in time to control humanity (rather than starting out running the show).
    However, on a much smaller scale, in WH40K the Nobles rule over hive cities/hive worlds,
    rather than just a single Noble house running the entire show, since the Emperor still is
    'alive' and running things from the Golden Throne.

    It would be easier for you to look into the lore, and you will see the similarities, since it would
    take many, many hours to explain either way.
     
  13. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    11,905
    Likes Received:
    12,497
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    The Emperor of Man seizes control of Earth in the year 30K, and eradicates
    all religion (and consequently becomes worshiped as a god).
    The Imperium of Man inhabits millions of worlds in the galaxy. Either by simply
    finding them, or taking them from other species in the galaxy.
    They have vast resources that in theory would make them a post scarcity society,
    even though this is not the case once you start digging into the lore in the universe.
    They have advanced technology that they don't fully understand from the past, and
    treat it like 'magic', and have rituals and ceremonies when they manage to build a
    machine. From praying to a computer every day so that it won't crash, to blessing
    a Titan, and revering the machine spirits.

    Yes there is the fantasy elements such as the Chaos Gods, Daemons, and the Warp.
    And 'monsters' in a sense with the Tyranids, Orks, and whatnot. Though the Tyranids
    originated from another galaxy to begin with, and came to the Milkyway, after consuming
    all the bio-mass from the one they left.

    So in a nutshell, your concept spans a larger swath of space, xenophobia on an intergalactic
    scale, 20K years further into the future over time, and someone with power rising at a much
    later point in time to control humanity (rather than starting out running the show).
    However, on a much smaller scale, in WH40K the Nobles rule over hive cities/hive worlds,
    rather than just a single Noble house running the entire show, since the Emperor still is
    'alive' and running things from the Golden Throne.

    It would be easier for you to look into the lore, and you will see the similarities, since it would
    take many, many hours to explain either way.
     
  14. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    112
    Hm, it doesn't sound all that similar to me. The only thing that's similar is the whole humanity has control over planets and goes to war with aliens and fights against monsters. I do have powerful cosmic horrors that were worshiped as Dark Gods that controlled all the lesser cosmic horrors that swarmed the universe eating planets, star-systems and planets but they're cosmic horrors and not actual demons with magic and whatnot. There's no actual magic in here either, just really creepy and mysterious cosmic phenomenons from an alternate dimension.

    To be honest though, the similarities you list are quite similar to Star Wars or Star Trek. They also have wars with aliens and galactic empires in them.
     
    Cave Troll likes this.

Share This Page