Posting large extracts (Why?)

Please tell me if this should posted in another thread (and/or move):

I don’t understand why people post 2000+ words so often on this site? Is there a way to politely ask people to try and post shorter portions of their story?

I have posted something long myself in the past so I understand why this may be a useful exercise. It just seems to me that there are often posts that include way over 2000 words. Don’t people understand that if they want feedback about something that they’ll stand a better chance of getting feedback if they post something around the 1000 word mark or less?

I’m not really sure what mods can do about this other than PM people on a person to person basis? I believe there are guidelines in place advising short extracts already.

Just wondered if anyone had any ideas suggestions? I like giving feedback, but a huge block of text instantly makes me think the person hasn’t analysed their own work enough because if they had then posting smaller selections for critique would be more common.

Note: I understand there are reasons for posting longer extracts though. Not entirely against something ranging from 2000-4000 words. It is a big ask though if someone is posting 5000+ words in the workshop (that is around 15-20 pages in a novel!).

 

Personally I highly disagree. If the story is engaging, it will still get replies and feedback, often quite useful, just not line by lines. I also really hate seeing a portion of a story in there, and then have to try and review a section of a work. There's only so much you can really look at with part of something. Just my opposite opinion though. Devil's advocate I guess.

 

Think of it like this ... if there is something specific that is bothering you DO NOT post more than 1000 words. If someone posts 2000+ words and asks ‘wha d’ya think?’ My instant reaction is if you expect me to read 2000+ words without any guidance as to what feedback you’re looking for ... well, no thanks. I’ve better things to do with my time and so have you because you’ve clearly not considered what you’re posting for.

If the question is ‘would you read on?” Then I know, and I imagine most people know, after the first few lines/paragraphs (NOT the first few pages).

Note: I am not saying DO NOT post anything in excess of 1000 words, just that if you give the reader nothing more than ‘what d’ya think?’ I personally find it quite lazy/dismissive. If you want someone to read 5000+ then you’re asking for a beta reader - I was under the impression that the workshop wasn’t for beta reading (perhaps a thread for beta readers would be useful?)

Btw I am not having a go at anyone in particular. I’m just trying to help people get critique if they want critique and get beta readers if they want beta readers - some posts seem stuck between the two (I generally won’t touch anything over 2000 words that says nothing much more than ‘wha’ d’ya think?’).

Maybe I am alone here - quite possible as I’m an incredibly fussy reader

 

I know I am guilty of over 2k postings in the WKS, but
you can just read a portion of a longer posting if you
want offer your thoughts on what you did read. That
is just as helpful as reading the whole thing.

 

Speaking as a Mod here: There is actually no rule against lengthy submissions in Workshop threads. I imagine there would be software difficulties if you tried to post a complete novel, etc ...but if you want to post longer pieces than just a few hundred words, feel free. Just posting a few hundred words might result in more people critiquing the piece, but the critiques will likely be about grammar, sentence structure, word choice, etc. There won't be enough of your writing there to make judgements about the story's content or story flow.

Nobody is forcing anybody to read stuff they don't want to read. If you find a piece is too long, either critique a part of it (and let the writer know why—you lost interest, or you don't have the time just now, or whatever—) or skip it entirely.

My own personal feeling (Mod hat off here) is that many of the pieces are too short! Especially in the Novel section.

It's hard to get the flavour of a novel from just a snippet. Having said that, I don't want to wade through badly-written, grammatically poor, atrociously-spelled offerings either. If the excerpt is well-written and interesting, however, I'll happily read and feed back on quite a bit of it.

If it's well-written, you don't need to do a line-by-line critique, do you? So length shouldn't be much of a barrier. You can drop English teacher mode, and shift to Reader mode. With a well-written piece you can focus on the story, rather than on language usage quirks. Things like structure, character development, story flow, transitions, setting, general tone, possible plot development. In other words, you can critique the story itself. In order to do that effectively, you'll usually need quite a lot of 'story' to work with. At least a whole chapter and maybe even two ...or three.

I agree with @badgerjelly that it's helpful if the writer introduces the work by saying what they are particularly concerned about. However, it's not necessary. If you want to just put your offering up without any introduction at all, that's fine too. If you don't get much feedback, you might want to re-think that approach, though.

I reckon it IS important to let the reader know if the piece is NOT the opening chapter. Unless they are told otherwise, people usually critique a piece as if it was the start of the story. So catch your readers up, if you can. A brief summary of who the characters are and what has already happened in the story will get readers up to speed, and will result in more helpful feedback from them.

So many times I see new writers putting up an introduction to a Workshop offering that says something like: Please tell me what you think of (the story) and don't worry about grammatical mistakes. I know my grammar is terrible, etc.

Unfortunately, readers will struggle to get to the story if they are distracted by grammatical mistakes. And that includes offerings from writers who are writing in English as a second language as well. I am in awe that they are even trying to do this, but mistakes will be a barrier that they'll need to overcome, if they are to be successful writers in English.

If you are worried that your grammar isn't up to scratch, then, by all means, DO post only small sections of your work. Ask for specific feedback on grammar. My own opinion is that grammatical mistakes can—and should—be tackled one at a time. Tackle grammatical problems in small bites and you won't feel overwhelmed. For example, if you learn how to correctly punctuate dialogue from feedback on a single Workshop thread, that's something to tuck under your belt and then move on. Success. You won't make that mistake again, will you? Next issue....

 

Perhaps this thread is specifically talking about novels, but for a short story, if it's longer than 2k, I don't see what you can do other than post the whole work. If I can't keep you engaged for the whole story, then that too is valuable feedback. If I've written a 3k story, what's the point of posting a 1k extract?

That said, it's noticeable that shorter stories get more attention on the forum. That's probably because new posters, who are looking for their 2-for-1, are going to the shorter stories that they can read quickly and bang off a critique for. I'm not sure what you can do about this either.

 

I feel that folks get out of the forum what they are willing to put into it. Nobody who consistently gives short, lazy critiques is likely to make many friends that way. And they certainly aren't going to generate interest in their own work if they take no real interest in the work of others.