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  1. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Proposed: Hair-trigger transfer to Debate Room

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by ChickenFreak, Dec 31, 2018.

    This suggestion assumes that it's fairly easy to move a thread.

    We keep having threads in the normal forums that get ugly and then, after a bazillion posts, get either moved or closed.

    What about a policy of "If in doubt, just move the thing to the Debate Room"? No need for the moderator to read the whole mess--just move it as soon as the thought forms.
     
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  2. Tristan's Opa

    Tristan's Opa Member

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    People will have differing views. We just need to avoid the current trend of pejorative comments aimed AT each other. That makes it a personal attack, not a personal opinion.
     
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  3. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    Interesting idea. I’m not sure it’s what I want from these discussions though. Moving the threads to the debate forums would just be conceding that these discussions have to be WW3. I’d rather talk about writing in the writing sections. And there’s no reasons why we shouldn’t be able to discuss topics like this as rational people. Is there no way for us to steer the discussions in a more civil direction instead of ending them or moving them?
     
  4. Nariac

    Nariac Contributor Contributor

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    People have tried, in those very threads. The problem arises when other people seem set on steering in the opposite direction. :p
     
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  5. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But if those threads are moved to the Debate Room, the writing sections will just contain mostly just writing discussion. Fewer people will open a thread, find that it’s debate, and be tempted to participate. Damaged threads will just move out of the area.
     
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Not exactly fair when only a couple people in the thread are arguing. It would be like an official nod to a thread hijack.
     
  7. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    One Job.jpg
    Speaking as a former exacerbater of inane arguments, I don't feel that it would be wise to just
    shovel every thread that gets a bit shall we say passionate. Cause from what I have seen and
    learned in my time here (little as it is), you can just opt out of letting it runaway into a full
    on debate. Though from I have witnessed as of recent, neither will politely bow out of such
    an escalation, nor simply put an end to it.
    So I am onboard with putting on ignore function, or just simply ignoring the individual trying
    to burn the house down. That is the only way to inhibit such behavior, by not helping the one
    with the matches by spreading more gas around the house. :)
    And if you can't help from either side in creating a debate, then start a thread in the Debate
    Room where it ought to be, so that the original thread can be utilized by the rest of the community. :)

    My two pennies, anywho. :)
     
  8. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I think the last couple examples have gotten out of hand because Wreybies seems to be on vacation (if so, it's certainly well deserved), so possibly the offending parties haven't been slapped down as quickly as they would normally have been?

    I certainly don't want to see that ugliness on the main forum, and I'm someone who absolutely sympathizes with how hard it is to ignore ugliness and just let the offenders continue spewing. I think of people coming to our forum to see what kind of place it is and seeing that nonsense, with no one speaking up against it... I don't like that picture.

    So, yes, I've certainly added a few names to my personal "Ignore" list in the last couple days, but having too many people on ignore makes it really hard to follow conversations, sometimes, so it's not the ultimate answer...
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Imagine a city square that's awash in litter. It would certainly be best if people would just tuck their candy wrappers in their pockets and take them home.

    But I think that installing trash cans is going to make a whole lot more difference.

    Sometimes a little change in reality can do more than an immense amount of begging for a change in human nature.
     
  10. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    I have to agree with this - I've definitely added a few myself lately, but it's making me want to engage in the forums less because there's big chunks of -wait for it - actual discussion about writing missing from a bunch of threads now and its super confusing as to what people I can actually see are responding to. I don't know what the answer is, but my fear is that it will become even more common because those of us who aren't particularly interested in socio-political wankfests will be inclined to stay away, leaving only the rabble-rousers and shit-stirrers in place.
     
  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Part of the issue for me is that it's really hard for me to see someone say something horrible and just ignore it as if it's not there--that feels like I'm accepting the sentiment. Yes, I should just get over it, but...it's hard.

    I still don't think that that many threads go downhill. When left in place, it's enough to poison the forums, but it's really not enough that we'd lose much if they were moved.
     
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  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But the thread is hijacked whether it sits still or moves. And if it is still kinda usable, people can continue the discussion after the move to the Debate Room.

    Now, the thread is also to some extent hijacking the forum it's sitting in.
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    A possible alternative that doesn't require moderator effort, though the moderators may choose to forbid it: A Spillover thread in the lounge and a Debate Spillover thread in the Debate Room.

    It's possible to Reply, then copy/paste both the quote and one's own reply in a completely different thread. If a side discussion leads to people swapping chili recipes, and discussing the various merits of different peppers, in a thread that's supposed to be about grammar, people could take that discussion to Spillover. If it leads to people talking politics, people could take that discussion to Debate Spillover.

    I realize this feels exactly like creating a Debate Room thread, but somehow creating a Whole New Thread feels like a bigger step than posting in a thread that already exists for the purpose in question.
     
  14. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    We already have the debate section though, which is like a trash can that's installed but not used. If people don't put trash in the cans themselves, sometimes it's necessary to hand out fines for littering. Technically staff can move the threads to the debate forums, but that also means we have to move a lot of non-debate content there too. We wouldn't be throwing away just the trash, but also the park benches and swing sets that it got spilled on.
     
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  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I think wrey and co do a fair job of moving threads to the debate room when its warranted - but when a thread deteriorates into name calling and abuse its going to have to be locked even if its in the debate room.

    really the answer is for people to just act like adults- there were people who vehemently didn't agree with each other never the less having a civil and interesting discussion in those threads before they got locked...it was just unfortunate that there were others who felt the need to personally abuse each other.

    Its also important to be clear that just because someone doesn't agree with your (mine, anyone's) position that doesn't make them a shit stirrer or a troll... what tends to get that sort of thread locked is when the mods are getting a shit tonne of reports all accusing each other … that tends to happen when people arguing position xx are absolutely sure their hands are whiter than white and the people arguing against them are trolls and the people taking position yy believe exactly the same.

    The truth is generally that by that point no one's hands are particularly clean (and yeah I include myself in that)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    It is technically possible to split content out of a thread - but sorting the wheat from the chaff is a time consuming job and its not a reasonable ask for the mods to sort that sort of thread out … you'll see them do it when its a perfectly reasonable thread up to #xx and then it kicks off, but when its all mixed up its not really a good use of their time
     
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  17. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    If the Spillover concept isn't flat-out forbidden, I may do that.
     
  18. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    I get it, I really do. But I'm seeing it everywhere - not only on social media but in real life discussions I'm held hostage to, and I only have so much emotional bandwidth to spare. I've had to recuse myself for my own mental health, to be perfectly honest.
     
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  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Its not necessarily a bad idea but I predict the spill over threads will catch fire and have to be extinguished with the hammer of doom
     
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  20. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    Yeah, I am generally against splitting and merging threads, since it gets confusing. Something I've done as a mod on other forums is to:

    1. Post a message on the thread saying that new replies should be on topic, possibly with a link to a debate thread where the argument would be appropriate, or a request to make a thread in that section if the debate should continue.
    2. Delete any off topic replies after that.
    3. If people ignore the warning even after off-topic posts are deleted, ban them from the thread (which is a xenForo feature) + infraction

    Dunno if it would work here or fits in well with how moderation is currently done, but that will usually salvage the thread. It also gives people ample warning to settle down if they're willing to. Even if the thread is closed, the debate often continues anyway (as we saw with two threads discussing a very similar topic), and it often doesn't address the source of the problem and just lets it fester.
     
  21. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    I agree with Moose and respectfully ask it be moved to the Debate room. The Lounge tends to be the most pleasant place in the Forum, and people tend to get along there quite well for the most part. I think having the spillover there would quickly pollute the atmosphere there.
     
  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I was imagining that only the friendly spillover would go to the lounge (the chili recipes), but, yes, that distinction could be rapidly lost.
     
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  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I could be wrong but I have a feeling that thread banning may be a wrey only function and I've not seen him for a couple of days
     
  24. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    It can be configured for moderators in XenForo, without giving any admin access. No idea how it’s configured here.
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Daniel tends to like to hold things close - in the early days they had a moderator who...well...went a bit strange shall we say … that's why we wind up waiting for Daniel to get things done because even Wrey hasn't got access to do XYZ

    The net result is that stuff that you'd expect to be in mods hands isn't always
     

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