1. Dark_Leome

    Dark_Leome New Member

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    Military sci fi and military characters in sci fi

    Discussion in 'Science Fiction' started by Dark_Leome, Sep 24, 2019.

    Hello guys
    I'm writing a sci fi novel, where many of characters are serving in the armed forces ( space navy, to be precise). I can post this on forum about character development, but because it's sci fi, well, it here now. Commanding starship is different from commanding maritime vessels because of different environment and technology. That's another reason, why it's here.
    But my main goal is to understand how people behave, while being a soldier, what flaws, wants and needs they may have. Their behavior is different from civilian one, so many sources for writing aren't quite good for this. "You can watch Battlestar galactica" - you can say. Yes, you partially right, I like that show, but it's about survival in apocalypse and search for home (Earth).My novel is different(with some inspiration from BSG, nevertheless). And, BSG is a TV show, not a novel.
    So, give your thoughts, advises, wishes etc. I'll reveal more details in the future.
    P. S. I'm also aiming for realistic setting, so comment on this, too.
     
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  2. AbyssalJoey

    AbyssalJoey Active Member

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    If you want to know how real soldiers behave you're better of asking some veterans and reading war memoirs... maybe some historical fiction. I myself am working on a Sci-Fi war story and this is exactly what I've been doing so while I could tell you several of my conclusions it is better for you to read and draw your own, therefore I'm only going to tell you a couple of them.

    From what I've read soldiers tend to regard highly the opinion of veterans (especially if the know them) and they have contempt for inefficient higher-ups, case in point:

    "When the Point came tearing past me, his face tense, running wide-legged like a horseman, and when the man behind him also blazed away and retreated, I knew what was going on.
    Lieutenant Commando was playing commando.
    This was street-fighting technique. One man fires and retreats, covered by the second man now firing, and then he, too, fires and retreats, and so on down the line, a tactic that can go on to infinity, or at least until one has retreated as far as one wishes - as far as the generals, even - or until all the ammunition is consumed. No doubt this is an excellent technique for the cities of civilization, but it was as impractical in the jungles as ski troops in the Sahara, or, more to the point, the employment of our style of patrol in that same desert, Such a tactic fits a situation in which there is little or no concealment. Who could ask for more concealment than the rain forest of New Britain?
    My contempt for Lieutenant Commando's misplaced tactics was confirmed the next moment, when the last man before me had fired and come running past me.
    'Oh what a paper ass!' he said, cursing between clenched teeth. 'Oh what a paper-assed shavetail son of a bitch.' He looked at me and growled, 'Commando sits on his brains,' and when I saw that it was none other than the doughty Souvenirs, I felt as though my own judgment of the lieutenant had been fortified by an opinion from the Supreme Court." Robert Leckie - A Helmet For My Pillow
     
  3. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Battlestar Galactica is a novel.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    I'm a Marine Corps veteran, and I would say the first thing you would want to develop here is the culture. Militaries, especially hardcore ones like my Marines, develop a strong sense of culture within their core, as well as in individual units. This pride and unity is the glue that holds everything together and keeps them going through all the struggles they are going to have.

    I'm concerned when you say "soldier," because in the military world, that only defines one group (army), and the rest of us hate it. You seem to be more centered on the navy. The thing to really remember here is that everyone has jobs. They aren't just "soldier," are some other off-hand nonsense. Our jobs are coded, and very different between each, yet necessary for the whole. I was a 6337 : F/A-18 Aircraft Electrician, basically a troubleshooter for F-18 hornets. I ran a shop of about thirty other electricians, which we were part of a maintenance squadron of anywhere from 120 to 200 different others. These others would be airframers, powerliners, seat mechs, admin, controllers, etc. Then there were the pilots and all of he officer divisions, which were entirely different leading group all together.

    If I were you, I would ask a lot of specific cultural questions to people like me, study how rank structure works and then develop your own, and study a lot on how a military ships and aircraft function as a team of military personnel in cohesion. I can help if you have a more specific focus, because to make it plain, there's a lot to it. I would also like to say that a spaceship is going to act almost exactly like a normal ship on water personnel wise. You will still have engineering down in the engines, the flight deck crews are the same, maintenance crews are the same, still have a captain or commander leading, navigation, etc. Technology changing has little effect on leadership structure.

    Also, BSG does a actually fairly accurate job. That may be a good starting point. The dereliction of duty, and the stepping out of line is a bit ridiculous there, but it's a start.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  5. Dark_Leome

    Dark_Leome New Member

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    Well, guys, thank you for your responses. It's great to hear that my idea makes some sense.
    Honestly, character are not the biggest challenge, but their actions are.
    At the course of the story, one of the characters disobeys order, when she responded to a distress call. The main mission was not very successful, and the "rescue mission" was an ambush, made by people, pursuing those, who send a signal, and there were few casualties, but the rescue itself was successful. Of course, this insubordination wasn't just forgotten, but she remained captain. Can this make sense or she should be demoted or court-martialed with serious consequences?
    P. S. Tyrol and Agathon got away with murder in BSG, so, i guess, my decision isn't that idiotic, if you'll say this.
     
  6. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Paging @Lew for an officer's view of naval culture.
     
  7. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    I'm also going to recommend reading a ton of non-fiction. Watch and listen to people who serve/d, best if they are/were in the navy. Start writing and ask questions as soon as you can formulate them. I've found that only in writing my story do I find out what I don't know.

    Go on extended sailing trips; not beach-party-sailing but into rough water and wind and without landfall for extended periods. That'll teach you about hierarchy and stuff like punctuality, tidying up after yourself, and how to act as a team in a confined environment. If you plan to write hand-to-hand combat, take combat survival classes.

    Theory is nice and tidy but reality isn't. And if nothing else, you get character-building experiences out of writing your book and a whole lot of fun.
     
  8. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    If you live in the US, look for your local VFW chapter and show up at their next gathering. If you want to PM me your location I can tell you if you have any bases nearby and how to begin interacting with them.

    ETA: you can also look for a deployment ceremony nearby. Those are intense.

    Both of my grandfathers were lifers in the the Army, my maternal grandfather the tail end of WW2, Korea and blinded in Viet Nam. My dad was a Medivac crew chief in Vietnam and all five of his brothers spent time active duty. My brother was in GW1 and assorted other skirmishes for 20 years. My son-in-law is an active Army NCO and my youngest is prepping for Naval Special Warfare.

    One thing all share: contempt for civilians who try to portray them and fail miserably. They have their own vernacular and tropes.

    ETA2: Kristin Hannah had the same problem when she set out to write Home Front. In the audiobook version's Author Q&A she goes into that problem and how she solved it. One of her primary protagonists was a female Blackhawk pilot. She called a nearby base's public affairs officer and was introduced to a real life woman Blackhawk pilot. Hannah has a publishing house and many books on her CV so you probably won't get access the way Hannah did, but listening to the author Q&A she relied heavily on that pilot while writing.

    Another thing: find some of the more popular military users on Facebook and start following them. One in particular, The Army's Fckups, is my SIL's favorite. You'll find lots from there. Read the comments. Yeah I know, that's a chore sometimes but you'll learn how they communicate with each other.

    And to make you smile. My daughter, SIL and two grandkids were posted to USFK for two years. The South Koreans take their history seriously. My granddaughter's preschool class went to a war memorial once a month to learn what happened there. My daughter was sent this photo, which she then sent to me with a note. "Heaven forbid (my granddaughter) ever gets access to a working one!"
    IMG_2837.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  9. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    I beg to differ. Who said character is the outcome of action? Very rough quote.

    Okay, this is going to confuse the heck out of you but please bear with me.

    The USMJ is The Law of the US Military. Everyone knows this. But just as in civilian life the UCMJ doesn't cover every single circumstance or event.

    My husband is watching a series on Amazon and told me about a scene he really enjoyed. A SEAL team is sent into a foreign country's capital city to capture a bad guy. The team is discovered and has to get out fast so they steal a tank. Eventually they drive the tank off a bridge to escape after causing all sorts of mayhem.

    When the team returns to HQ their CO starts ranting and raving at them for being so blatant in their escape. In the middle of his rant he retrieves several cigars from his desk drawer and hands them out to the team, all the while screaming at them about the mission.

    Is that believable? Absolutely!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  10. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    A piece of lingual trivia. The word snafu began as a military acronym: Situation Normal, All F***ed Up. It was so popular after Korea it made it into civilian vernacular.
     
  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    more like absolutely not - a SEAL team wouldn't steal a tank to escape, or probably have the capability to drive one.. nor would they carry out the sort of high profile mayhem you are talking about, and a military chewing out would involve standing at attention while your CO shouts at you - the idea of him handing round cigars is laughable.

    these sorts of series are absolutely not believable, but involve a suspension of disbelief because people want to enjoy the idea of special forces taking a tank on a demolition derby, then their CO being a good ole boy about it
     
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  12. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    UCMJ: Uniform Code of Military Justice.
     
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  13. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    I know what you're saying and in many cases that's absolutely true. But Special Warfare is a bit different. Not that plenty of NSW enlisted men haven't stood at attention while having their asses chewed but I know of three cases in which regulations required an ass chewing but the Officers delivered it while also delivering congratulations for getting the job done. That's far less likely in non-SW divisions of course but it does happen.
     
  14. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    My youngest is enduring a stint as a QM before returning to the EOD pipeline. His QM2 was forced out of SQT (that's after making it through BUD/S) for a bar fight. His immediate chain of command gave him a slap on the wrist and let it go. A higher up on the non-NSW side found out about the bar fight and kicked the guy out of SEAL training for it.

    Consequences depend upon how far up the chain the information regarding the infraction goes.

    ETA: And you're right re: the team and tank, etc. I meant the CO's reaction is absolutely believable. Sorry for being unclear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  15. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    There's a gulf between bar fight and international incident. Those SEALs wouldn't steal a tank for a few reasons. First, that's a fairly easy way to die. The whole city knows where you are. Second, they don't know how to drive a tank because it isn't their job. They are just taught identification. And third, the repercussions for the unauthorized collateral damaged would have them lined up and shot.
     
  16. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    And tanks are slow. Toyota Hi-Lux or a Pajero are ubiquitous, invisible, fast, agile, and indestructible.
     
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  17. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Was this the film?

     
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  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    fast and furious - the last bastion of military realism
     
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  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    not to mention that if you know where the bad guy is a predator/hellfire solution is a lot tidier than sending a seal team to get shot at.
     
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  20. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    Two man tank crew? Interesting.

    I couldn't watch that series anymore after 5 when they dragged the super huge safe through the streets with a couple of cars. Just stop it.
     
  21. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    Where's the "I can't believe I made that mistake" emoticon?
     
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  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    hell in the first one the truck driver defends himself by firing a shotgun through the cab door rather than just side swiping the car and running it off the road... they really really aren't supposed to be realistic
     
  23. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, they progressively got more ridiculous. It became a game of how much can the audience deal with before it's just too stupid. Balance of ridiculous and cool looking stuff.
     
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  24. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Maybe its an M1918 tankette :D
     
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  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    which one is it where the cars come down on parachutes at the beggining :D
     

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