Question about writing this rape/sexual assault scene.

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Ryan Elder, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Well in crime stories in Canada, the federal police, the R.C.M.P. has been sought out to help with felony cases, when the regular city police need help from them and need access to their crime labs and technology.

    However, if the RCMP would not take interest, then it works out for the story perhaps then, since the police cannot get more help?
     
  2. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I just think the story would have to exhaust every possible avenue to get the evidence to charge her with the crime before the federal government would even become interested in helping.
     
  3. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Oh okay, I have read stories where the government has gotten involved in murder cases, where they wanted to tap a phone or something like that. But if the government will not help, then that works in favor of her getting away with it, right? Which is what I want.
     
  4. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I guess her getting away with it would have more to do with the competence of the local police department.
     
  5. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Could your cop protagonist have some serious issues? Like, he's an addict or something, has lied in the past and is fighting his way back to respectability? And/or he doesn't report the rape. Both of these could add some interesting shadings to the characterization, although they'd make things less morally black-and-white...
     
  6. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Well I don't really see him as an addict or anything. I just think the best way is for him to fail to prove it. I feel like if I add a flaw like that it could be forced maybe, and wouldn't go naturally with the character perhaps. Is it not possible for the rapist to get away with based on being a good manipulator on her end, alone?

    If he is an addict or a liar or something like that in the past, then theme is changed. The theme is how a good cop who is Mr. clean, turns corrupt and vengeful, cause of his own system failing him.

    Also, if he does not report the rape, and chooses revenge right away, without even seeing if he can make a case, then the system doesn't fail him cause he didn't even try. So this changes the theme as well, and he goes to revenge right away without even seeing if he has a chance with the system.

    Is it possible to make the plot work,without changing the theme?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  7. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Yes, it's possible, but (again, I don't know how the Canadian system works so I'm speaking strictly for US) she would go to trial. If a good cop, Mr. Clean as you called him, accuses a woman of rape, she would likely be arrested and charged with rape. They would probably take it to a grand jury, even without evidence, and try to take it to trial. Whether or not they would allow it to continue without evidence is up to the jury or judge. But either way, it would turn into a full scale investigation. They would interview her and everyone she knows. Everyone. If even one person gives up some dirt on her, it would likely go to trial. I've heard of loads of cases that run on circumstantial evidence. They don't need photos or a video or a confession to convict her.

    After all that, if it makes it to trial, it's possible a jury would declare her not guilty. Or, if a judge dismisses the case, it's likely the police would eventually give up. But it wouldn't immediately be dropped. The investigation would last for months. Possibly even years. The police don't just give up one of their own.

    You said the cop who was raped was investigating a rape. Was he investigating her and he just didn't realize? If so, she's even more screwed. It's like when someone investigates a murderer and ends up getting murdered. It's pretty likely the person they were investigating killed them. So this would be the same. If the cop was investigating her, the police would also reinterview all of the other victims and use them to nail her in court.

    I really can't see a quick or easy way out of this situation for you. I'm sorry. :(


    ETA: The only way this woman could really get off without being investigated is if she were some political figure higher than the police officer she raped (police chief's daughter, mayor's daughter, a senator or congress woman) or if she were a foreign ambassador. Most ambassadors have diplomatic immunity and can't be prosecuted. But other than that, I can't think of a way to save the story.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
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  8. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Okay thanks. But a trial would take months, and I was hoping to finish my story in a sooner amount of time. Basically the rest of the plot would have to be put on hold, just so the trial could play out, and that could be a problem.

    Why would she go to trial though? When I researched rape crimes for my story, a lot of them do not go to trial, based on lack of evidence, and it's just one person's word against another's. Is that really enough to go on to go to a grand jury? In Canada, they do not have grand jury's, and a judge makes the decision of whether or not to continue. But I could I write it so that the prosecutor does not take it a judge, cause he knows the answer will be no?

    I understand that the police would investigate but even if people they talked to had bad things to say about her, usually a person cannot go to trial based on people having bad things to say.

    You know how when you read stories or watch movies, a prosecutor will try to make the suspect look guilty, by saying that they have a bad past, and the judge will throw it out saying that the person's past is not relevant to the current crime?

    The cop was not investigating her, but an associate of hers, who he thought might have been the rapist, than found out it was her, when she raped him. But I wanted her to lie to the prosecutor saying that the cop is pinning it on her without any real proof.

    I don't want her to be a political figure in order to get off though, cause she is not the political figure type. I was told by others when writing it that a lot of times a prosecutor will throw out a case, cause they do not like the challenge of a case where a woman is raped by a man.

    Well if the case has to drag out for months, how many months are we talking about here? Cause the rest of the plot will have to be put on hold then.

    What about how in real life cases, where rapists get away with it though? I talked to my gilfriend's friend for research and she said that her rapist got away with raping her, and she says the police did not spend months the case.

    I talked to someone else who also said the same thing about her ordeal. How can I write it like that, where the rapist was smart enough to be beat the system, and it did not take months to do so?
     
  9. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Was your girlfriend's friend a police officer?

    Seriously, they're given more credibility than ordinary citizens. And the prosecutors are used to working with them, so if your cop is a stand-up guy, the prosecutor would know that.

    She might not be convicted of raping him, but I agree with the people saying she'd almost certainly be tried.
     
  10. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Okay thanks. No she wasn't a cop. But there are several cases that are thrown out because of circumstantial evidence, and I don't think they could go to trial based on someone else giving dirt on the person in an unrelated past incident.

    A lot of times in real cases, a prosecutor cannot used past dirt on a suspect, if it is not directly related to the current case. I talked to a real lawyer before and he said that a good amount of cases are dismissed before trial, because the cops used past dirt as evidence, and the judge didn't think that was enough.

    Well I could write it so that the cop is too ashamed to tell anyone.

    However, since the story ends with him getting revenge on her, for what she did to him, would the reader have a very different perception of him, if he did not report it to the system, first?

    Even if it's out of shame, a lot of times in these types of thrillers, the reader is very use to the victim telling the system first, and system fails the victim which leads to revenge. If my MC chooses to skip that step out of shame, and skips right to revenge, would the reader have a bad perception of the character as a result?

    I could also write it so that the prosecutor maybe meets the cop for the first time, if that helps?

    Also what about how villains get away with this in other works of fiction? One that comes to mind is the movie Ricochet with Denzel Washington. In that movie, the villain rapes him, or rather, he hires an associate to do it. Denzel reports it, and the villain he blames for it, is someone from Denzel's past who has a grudge... Denzel is also a cop... but the police do not believe him. They drop it right there, even though there are pieces of evidence that are not explored, that they theoretically could have.

    That is just one example, but there are works of fiction where villains get away with horrible crimes, and they do not not explain all the options that could have been explored. Is it just a matter of creating suspension of disbelief?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  11. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Sorry it posted twice.
     
  12. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    That fact you're missing is that the victim is a cop. If it was just a normal person, absolutely it would get thrown out lack of evidence. But it's a police officer -- an enforcer of the law -- and a good police officer by how it sounds. Think about it this way. If someone assaulted your sister or mother or aunt or [insert female you care about here]... Would you let it go because there was no evidence? Absolutely not! You'd fight as hard as you could to make sure her attacker received justice. Police do the same when it comes to their own. Besides, like Lewdog said before, a cops word weighs far heavier than anyone else's.

    Look at all the stories in the media right now. Cops killing unarmed kids. "I felt threatened," the cop says. And look what happens. He gets off scot-free. Why? Because it's the cops word versus the victims word. And the cop's word has more weight than his victim's.

    It's not so much people saying bad things.. It more speaks to her character. Let's break down how this will go (up to a trial):

    • When the cop first reports, they will look for evidence, and there will be evidence. There will be a rape kit, which will show her DNA on his body. If he's tied up and struggles, there will be ligature marks. If she bites him or sodomizes him, there will be more evidence. More than likely, he will take the police to the scene of the rape, where they will take more evidence. Find what she used to tie him down, find more DNA, etc.
    • Next, she'll be arrested. That's just what has to happen. Like I said before, unless she is someone of higher authority or importance than the cop, you really have no choice but to have her get arrested.
    • She will then be interrogated. Her answer to the accusation will be, "He asked me to do it." She'll claim it was mutual, not at all rape, and that's all she'll say.
    • Then, they'll go to everyone she knows. If they give even a hint that she could be the type of person to rape, they'll use that in the trial as evidence of her character. Say for example, an ex-boyfriend of hers said she bit him once and made him bleed. "I wasn't into it," he said. Bam! Previous history of assault. Or an ex-boyfriend said, "She used to be really forceful." Bam! Even more history of aggressive behavior.
    And that's all the police would need. They'd take that to trial, show the evidence that they had sexual contact, discuss her history of aggressive sexual behavior, and she'd likely go to jail. Now, in a normal situation, this wouldn't happen. But again, it's a cop. The rules are different when it's one of their own. They go to extreme lengths to indict someone who assaults a police officer.

    Now, say no one said a bad word about her. That's where it could get tricky. They'd either have to find solid proof that it was rape and not sex or the case would likely be thrown out.

    Either way, she will be arrested and it will stretch your story out way longer than you want to.

    Again, every day rape is different than a rape of a police officer. It will be taken 1000% more seriously, because he's an officer of the law. They are held in higher regard. They wouldn't just dismiss it. Normally, in a case of he-said-she-said, it will likely get thrown out. Not in the case of a cop.

    You can't. I'm just being honest here. As a reader (or a watcher as it's a screenplay), if I saw the police putting in no extra effort to catch a cop rapist, I would stop reading/watching immediately. It just isn't realistic. And it's so unrealistic that it would completely tear me out of the story.

    I know this is random, but... In Law & Order: SVU (tv show, in case you're unfamiliar), Olivia Benson is kidnapped and tortured by a guy. She ends up cuffing him to a bed and beating him within an inch of his life with a pipe. Afterwards, she claimed he was rushing at her (when he was handcuffed and not able to rush at her), so she used forced to disable him. Her victim, of course, said otherwise. But who would believe a victim over a police officer? Practically no one. So no investigation was done, and she got away with it.

    Granted, that's TV and her attacker deserved to get beat, but still... Police just hold more weight than normal citizens. It's unfair, but that's how it works.

    I think this is really your best option at this point. I wouldn't have a different perception of him. Look back to the Law & Order episode I mentioned above. The exact same thing happens, and no one (or at least I didn't) had a different view of Olivia. Your cop was raped. Most men feel extremely ashamed, embarrassed, emasculated, etc. and never end up reporting it. Having him not report it almost makes more sense than having him report it. Not only is that what happens most often, but it would bring to light the incredible shame he feels and hopefully help people understand that male rape is real and is traumatizing.

    So I'd go with this. No one would view him differently at the end. If anything, I think they'd be rooting for him. I know I'd want him to get revenge on her. But maybe I'm just sadistic. :p Hope that helps some.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  13. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Okay thanks, but you said it yourself that if he reports it, then it would surely go to trial. So if he chooses revenge instead, isn't it then kind of an overreaction if the system is sure to do justice on it?

    If the system is so much in favor because he is a cop, then why is he throwing it away for revenge?

    Also, I understand that in order for a cop's word to not be believed, that they have to have something discrediting them. One of you mentioned have him be an addict or something like that. But what if the rapist herself, came up with her own method of discrediting him? Like instead of having him have some convenient flaw, why not just have her come up with a better plan and have her come up with her own discrediting?

    I just thought it would hit the reader harder if the system failed him, compared to him not giving it a try at all. But will her coming up with a plan to discredit him work at all? Like maybe she can make it look like they were sleeping together, more than once, or something?
     
  14. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    She would surely go to trial, but she wouldn't necessarily be convicted. If they were no people to say something negative, it would just be the evidence and again, his word versus hers. Because it's a cop, the police are going to investigate harder. But it doesn't mean a jury will find her guilty. In fact, there's a very good chance it could be a mistrial.

    So you could easily go the trial route and have her get off without be charged. But I thought you wanted it to happen quickly. And to do that, I think the most effective thing would be for the cop not to report it.

    You could have her drug him. Give him a rohypnol or something else. I know you said you didn't want more evidence, but hear me out. They're sitting at a bar together, she puts a drug in his drink, making him extremely impaired, so they go back to her (or his) place. She knows he's a cop and very well may report it.

    So she frames him. Has him do REAL drugs -- mushrooms, LSD, something non-addictive preferable -- and takes pictures of him doing it. That way, when the police investigate her, she can say, "He wanted it!" He'd said, "No I didn't! She drugged me!" Then she'd show the cop the pictures of HIM doing the drugs and it would drastically lower his credibility. If he was high on illegal drugs, he could've agreed to anything. Even being a decorated police officer, that would put doubt in anyone's mind.

    Plus, roofies don't typically show up on a blood or urine test, so they wouldn't really be able to trace it back to her. Also, if the cops go back to the bar he met the woman at, you could have them talk to the bartender who could say, "Yeah, I saw them. They seemed pretty cozy to me. Went back to her place." Which would also decrease his credibility.

    But that's just my two cents.

    You can read more about rohypnol here: http://www.mckinley.illinois.edu/handouts/drug_facilitated_sexual_assault.htm
     
  15. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Alright, there is one thing I am not understanding. If there is a good chance she will not be convicted, then why is it going to trial? A lot of times if prosecutors have a lack of faith in conviction, they will not take it that far, and in a lot of stories, that what prosecutors do. They don't take it to trial if their is a good chance the crook will get off.

    As for the drugging, at the time of the rape, he is not drinking cause he is busy going over the case, and interviewing her, since she may know the suspect, but he is doing it on his own time, and is not officially on duty, but does not want to drink either, while with her going over stuff. But perhaps he could drink water or milk instead?

    But if the drug is in his drink and she takes a picture of him drinking it, how is the photo proof, since all you see is him with a drink and cannot tell if there is a drug inside it?

    But if I am going to write a trial, I need to know why the prosecutor is going through with it, if it's a loser case, especially when prosecutors turn down such cases. It will just help me if I know why.

    Also, there is a witness character who knows too much, that the rapist wants to get rid of. But the way the plot unfolds, this witness needs to be killed after she is acquitted, so I need a reason for her to hold off on it, until after the trial then, if there has to be one

    I also talked to a cop I use for research when he can, and he said that past reputation on a suspect, cannot be brought into evidence at a trial usually as well. I am not just seeing how they would allow it here in the rapist's case.

    Plus I talked to a cop about it now, and he said that in reality, the police cannot investigate a case, just cause of a cop's accusation. Just because a cop accuses her, they can arrest her, but they cannot tap her phones, get warrants to search her property or computer, based on the accusation?

    If they cannot do any of that, how far can they actually get, if that's the the case?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  16. Davek74

    Davek74 New Member

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    Some interesting view points in this thread. Personally, I'm not so sure about the penis pump thing, I'm not even sure it could give a man an erection, but I've never used one so it's a possibility.
    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the use of electro stimulant. If you Google these devices they can certainly be used to gain erection and force ejaculation as can the prostate massage already mentioned.
    There are some flaws in your version, for me. Firstly, rape of any sort (in a practical sense rather than legal as in law you need a penis to rape, anything else is assault by penetration, in the UK anyway) is about violence and control. Getting a man erect and allowing it to penetrate the offender is more of a sharing / allowing thing.
    Having said that, there could be an interesting twist where she allows him to penetrate her, so she can actually claim he has raped her first.
    How about this for your scenario. ..

    Your cop is estranged from his family, drinking heavily but his performance at work has increased (he has more time to dedicate to his work).
    Your offender is the daughter of someone he arrested, maybe her father died in custody.
    The cop is on a dating website, looking for easy sex and your off is craving revenge, which the website provides the opportunity.
    They meet up and she spikes his drink with Rohipnol (check the spelling) this is a drug that basically makes you very drowsy. You can still be manipulated but your account and memory will be very very hazy, with the memories coming back to you over a period of time, days and weeks. It also leaves the body very quickly so there is no trace after 24 / 48 hrs.
    Your offender electro stims an erection and rides him, allowing him to ejaculate in to her and giving him the opportunity to report him for rape. She has the physical evidence inside her.
    After that she anally rapes him with a prosthetic penis / dildo or, a twist could be that she has seduced another man and talks him into raping your victim.
    Both of these would leave evidence of the sodomy so your off friend poses with your victim in erotica photos (possible under Rohipnol) and these are uploaded to a sex dating website.
    When your vic comes to, he will know something wrong has happened. He will feel sore, but will have little to no recollection of what happened.
    Meanwhile, your off has reported the staged rape of her. She claims not to know the off bit obv has his dna inside her, so it's a matter of time before he is identified.
    Slowly, your victim will realise what has happened and will be in anguish about whether to report it. Will he be taken seriously? How will the police colleagues react? Some interesting emotions to explore there.
    The detectives investigating the staged rape eventually Id your vic wrongly as the offender, he's going to be arrested, suspended from work and it is a crime that his colleagues will detest him for, so he's going to feel further alienated.
    An interesting twist could be that, throughout this story your offender has been painted as a very unpleasant and calculating person. Maybe she is just a normal person, driven to the act by what happened to her father, as the story moves on and the victim's world falls more and more around him, she might start to feel guilty. The revenge isn't making her feel as good as she thought and she is empathising with the victim.
    Maybe she wants to hand herself in but her accomplice won't let her.
    I hope the above helps as I think you potentially have a very powerful story and, if written well, I'd love to read it ☺
     
  17. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Okay thanks. I would have to go over the idea. Because of bringing other plot points together, I would like her to do this in a few hours if possible, so I will consider the plan and see what I can do.

    Well I cannot have the cop go out drinking with her, since she is a witness in a case. It's okay for him to be worth her, as part of her manipulation but the cop would keep it as police business related, and make it sociable with drinking since she is a witness in a case and all that, at least that's how he would treat initially.

    When you say 'vic', what do you mean, the cop?

    Also, the idea of the rapist, raping the cop, and then making him look like the rapist, is kind of cliche, or at least it's been done before, where the rapist makes the victim look like the offender.

    Unless it works, and it's a cliche for a reason :).
     
  18. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    I actually think her claiming she raped him is interesting, and I think it'd do everything you need it to. The cop would accuse her, and his police brethren would angry and arrest her. But when they find her, she's holed up in her house, hair all messed up, crying hysterically. Then she accuses him of raping her and suddenly it's a different ballgame.

    The police would believe the cop because he's one of their own. But they know that if they prosecute her, it would turn into a media sensation. "Woman accusing cop of rape arrested today." It would lead to a deeper investigation, the department and the cop would be slammed by the public, and the cop could very well get arrested.

    So to save the cop and the department from backlash, they have no choice but to just let it go. The police department feels bad for the cop who was raped, but their hands would essentially be tied.

    I think you should do it. It does everything you need it to. Quick investigation, system failing the cop, and she manipulates people into letting the case go. I like it!
     
  19. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Okay then, I might do it that way. I don't her to press charges though, because then the plot will go into different directions that might not be good. Perhaps she could accuse him first but not actually do the rape kit and all that... not actually go through with the investigation, cause the goal is to get away with her crime, but if she presses charges against him, that would increase her chances of being caught in a lie, and just be an extra headache for her right?
     
  20. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Right. I think basically what you'd want to do is have her say she wants to press charges, but the police somehow convince her not to. Maybe have her agree not to press charges if the cop doesn't press charges. It may make her look guilty to accept that idea, but I don't think it matters. The police believe she raped the cop, but there's no way to go through with a proper investigation without tainting the cop and the department.
     
  21. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

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    Hmm okay that sounds like it could work. I have an option as well, but I am just spitballing here. What if the cop was too ashamed to say anything and chose not too. But she assumes that he is going to talk so she already has a lie planned out in motion, to tell the police to discredit him. Not sure what, just some lie. So she tells the lie to make him look bad, before he talks about the rape.

    But then this puts him in a bad position cause he never reported the rape, so now he is already discredited before he said anything, rather than him reporting it first, and then her doing a rebuttal after. So now when he says she raped him to counter her discrediting, he is not believed so well, cause he chose not to report it before. Does that make sense?

    But if it doesn't work it was just an idea, I came up with before I read yours.
     
  22. Hubardo

    Hubardo Contributor Contributor

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    I never thought I would write a rape scene, and feel gross about doing it, but it has found its way into the story and it works. But it still feels gross to do. I'm wondering if anyone recommends any stories I could read where there are good examples of this being done.
     
  23. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    That's the point, torture scenes aren't supposed to be comfortable, they are supposed to be torturous. I'd think there was something wrong with you if it didn't bother you.

    Might I share a scene from my own work that was not comfortable to write, nor would I want it to be comfortable to read?

    Paragraph 3 should be something like: "The door opened; Harper ran in with the new patient on her back. Would Nathan ever not be surprised by Harper's ability to remain standing from heavy tremors while everybody else was on the floor?"

    Paragraph 4 should specify "Nathan lost sight of Harper when ..."

    Paragraph 7, Nathan thinks of her as "June" instead of as "Harper"

    Paragraph 11, "one" and "two" should be spelled out

    Paragraph 12: "Harper then picked ..."
     
  24. Nightstar99

    Nightstar99 Senior Member

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    I wold go and read the Caribou Stork Nightmares by Irvin Welsh, and Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho. That might help you seeing how this kind of thing can work in a novel.

    Both male and female genitalia will respond to stimulation, wanted or unwanted, and relatively high percentage of rape victims are thought to experience unwanted arousal or orgasm, irrespective of how violent or frightening the situation was.

    Its a hard subject to write about, or think about to be honest.
     
  25. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Um, not all f/f sex involves penetration with a dildo or other "penis substitute". There are a myriad of other ways for two women (or humans in general) to have sex with each other regardless of genitalia.
     
    BayView and Tenderiser like this.

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