If you want to know I can PN, I don't want to post this in here. I think this thread should be closed. This is not an adults-only forum and anyway, most published authors out there know that there is a line to tread, else they could get in trouble with law enforcement. I do not think we here in this forum want to go there.
As long as people play by the rules, the thread will stay open. Turning rape into a taboo isn't productive much less therapeutic to some survivors of rape/sexual assault (yes, we have several on the boards). The same applies to just about every subject. Granted, with some subjects the members will have to be more careful regarding how the subject is discussed. Say, if there's a thread about child molestation, the members discussing it would have to tread very, VERY carefully, or the thread gets locked and the parties guilty of the mess will be infracted accordingly. To quote the forum's free speech policy: "Since we are a writing forum, WritingForums.org is highly in favor of free speech and strongly opposed to censorship. The exceptions are situations where content may harm the quality or well-being of the community." Also, illegal content is obviously not allowed, but discussing rape is not illegal, ergo it's a valid subject for serious, respectful discourse.
I just thought of something. Certain things don't have to be exact, and in nauseating detail. If a character in a book is putting together a bomb, does that mean the writer will go into the details of making one? Of provided he knows. Its knowledge that can be obtained legitimately. The same can be said for anything graphic or dangerous.
I could think of many things that would be relevant to the reader. I could think of many plots where the chemistry is exact, of where to find certain compounds commercially. That would be relevant, but I wouldn't do it. Not for feared of vanishing in the night, but for concern that somebody might use that info to actually do something with it. Another thing that I see a lot in police procedurals and crime mystery books is an intentional or non intentional omission of certain steps, particularly in forensics. We can't have how tos on how to get away. Or how to cut wrists. For years it was an act depicted as cutting across the wrist when it was common knowledge in those circles, and only recently once it bled into mainstream knowledge and as such media forms, novels, TV, etc. This is the case against these kinds of topics, but then again, it is not absolute. I do listen to lots of music that is graphic. I still remember when Judas Priest was on trial for Stained Class and Better By You, Better than Me. And of course Twisted Sister with Under the Blade. I guess I'm dating myself a bit, but the point is that anything can be done, but let's face it. We're amateurs, right? Even if published, we're not Edgar Allan Poe. This is not intented to be mean, just that if I think about it, artistic and creative license is afford to a select few. An example I experienced first hand. I was playing a gig many years ago, and had a decent fan base. When I played and roayally messed up a guitar solo, my fans let it slide (even if they knew the song very well, note for note). I played a gig in Oklahoma where we were virtually unheard of, the mistakes cost me. I couldnt pass them off as "It's how I wrote it" because it sounded bad. I'm getting tired so I am straying a bit, and overstating my point. Hopefully I am coming across, okish. AB
Ok, you didn't get my point. That's ok. The point is: does the reader need to know and how does knowing impact their experience of the book. Clearly some things are not included because it has no impact on the story. Knowing how to cook a particular explosive compound doesn't have any emotional resonance and doesn't impact the plot, unless they need a particular ingredient, to which point you only mention the basics necessary. But with a rape scene, immersing the reader in the experience could help create the required impact and emotional connection to the character, depending on what you want the reader's experience to be.
Yes, depending on the desired reader's experience. It may be me, but the gritty and vulgar style might be coming to pass. But then again, I see young people and their tastes and I wonder. Maybe it's my generation and I follow standards of another era when it comes to vulgarity. Irony of this is that I am no prude as I have written more adult themed stories, including this topic. But as mentioned before, it's fantasy. The only problem I have is in the definition. "You'll know it when you see it" doesn't quite fly. (I forgot what judge used that "definition") The rape scene in Death Wish 3, with Charles Bronson is used to stir anger in the viewer. I watched the movie in both cut and uncut versions and I can say this. It doesn't do much. In fact it's the girls suicide that is more poignant. And then there is the porn test. Granted it works for movies only, but if it appears on a porn site, then chances are it was a bit overdone. AB
But I'm not talking about the reader's desire, I'm talking about what the author wants the reader's experience to be. Also, most of the vulgar, gritty and horrifically detailed rape and torture that I've read came from the 50s and 60s, leading to obscenity trials, which they passed. Modern work has not yet shown me anything so hardcore. So 'another era' isn't a useful comparison unless you mean the 19th century, neither is 'today's standards'. vulgarity in film has gone up and down, but more often it's violence, not anything else. American censors still get worked up over a nipple rather than a head explosion. Now that's warped morality. Violence can be just as effective, traumatic, vulgar or exploitative as any other horrific experience. And, for violence, sometimes it's better to show, and sometimes better not to show. But what's really important is not really what you show, but how.
I agree, both can be excessive, and as far as my era, there's some geography involved, moving around the globe tends to expose one to different levels of what is acceptable or not.
Absolutely. The differences in moral standards around the world highlight just how subjective it really is. A very interesting topic for another time, but one I've had lengthy discussions about in person with people.
I had the benefit of growing up overseas during my young adult years. So I got to see things from the other side of the mirror, so to speak. That and appreciate my own country when I returned. Hurray for no more standing in milk queues.
