Rejection, rejection, rejection...

Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by deadrats, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    New story made it to the post office today. We'll see how this one does out in the world.
     
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  2. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think my cover letters are trying to get me an unearned advantage. I don't say how right my story is for them. If it's right, they'll know it. However, I have worked hard to be able to list a few publications that are (at least I believe) impressive. And I worked hard to earn an MFA. I think sometimes that's enough to make an editor look a little closer. And I do feel like these things are somewhat advantages that I've earned. Reading the publications you submit to also does give you an earned advantage, I believe. You know better what they want and hopefully you, as the writer, think you've got something they will go for. I don't think it ever hurts to mention something about a recent issue they've put out. Another advantage is the invite to submit directly to the editor. That's when I don't simultaneously submit regardless of their policy. And I do write that in my cover letter. I feel like it's fair. If they are letting my skip the slush pile, I'll give them an exclusive.

    I used to read submissions for a journal, and I always read cover letters. Though places publish new writers all the time, known and proven writers do have an advantage because there's less risk involved and names people recognize sell and gain attention. A lot of what's published in the top (literary) places is solicited or people have connections. That's not how I broke in, but the first short story I sold for big money was not a simultaneous submission. I clearly stated that and what I liked about the publication. Did it help? I think so. It took several months to get a response. And my first response was maybe. They were seriously thinking about it. I wrote back to thank them for letting me know and told them that they could take all the time they wanted. They didn't have to worry about making a quick decision. If they had, it might not have been the same outcome.

    I haven't had a ton of success (as you can clearly see by this long string of rejections), but I have had some or just gotten lucky. I believe the number one advantage a writer can have is knowing the publications you are submitting to. And there really isn't a good excuse for not giving yourself the best shot you can. And I don't really see any harm in slipping in a line about that in a cover letter. I think a lot of the time editors and submission readers can tell if the writer has even ever read the publication. I also think there are times when it doesn't matter at all. I'm still trying to figure all this out. I've been at this for years, but I'm just now getting in the game.
     
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  3. Caffrey

    Caffrey Member

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    My latest rejection came for a few poems I submitted. It did include the reason. Apparently there's no place in poetry for overt sex and violence.
     
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  4. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I wouldn't mention I've done a CW writing course. But I suppose that's a US/UK thing.

    US, I'd imagine would be more 'and I studied MFA under Charles Bronowski, NY state pd.'

    'Great!'

    and UK, 'and after I failed by A levels, Dad paid for me to do a Open university writing degree.'

    'You sad twat.'
     
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  5. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I think a good way to know what to say in a cover letter is to look at the writer bios in the publication you are submitting to. When I started writing short stories and reading publications, it seemed like every writer had an MFA or taught in an MFA program. I was like, "What is this MFA thing and how do I get one?" LOL. But it was a little like that. And I didn't start selling fiction until after I had an MFA. Not that everyone needs one, but if you can get one, why not? It's not going to hurt anything and might actually help. I don't know. The degree debate is a whole other thing. I needed it to be able to write the way I write now. I do believe that. But that's me. Maybe other people have more natural talent and need less instruction.
     
  6. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I have a feeling you're just ahead of your time.
     
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  7. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    A 48-day form rejection from New England Review.
     
  8. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Hey @DR - I started a reply a couple of times...so you said...

    I think a good way to know what to say in a cover letter is to look at the writer bios in the publication you are submitting to.

    My goodness, last time I did that I became enraged. It was the Southampton Northampton Review (US), - [but there are many other examples possibly ;) ]

    STOOPID/HYSTERICAL
    ...and I was incensed the way this/these literary reviews appeared like parodies with their mincing watercolour cover, the utterly humourless poetry, and the bios that were almost incestuous: the faraway look in the author's photograph, and every one of the contributors funded for a chap-book and did nothing else [no-one had a job except for CW Tutor] nothing else but write about forests and light, dust motes and cats sitting in their boring cabins preaching world peace to fellow contributors.

    BUT...I suppose that's the point - you have to see things through their THEIR minds' eye. It was so disgustingly cerebral and wet. That, this is MARKET - I have to learn.

    ..

    Likewise - urban mags where they bang on about social media, and all the stories are about drugs, no great shakes, eh..
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  9. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Same with the winners for the Writers and Artists' Yearbook contest - all very similar stories. But that's a well-trodden crit of Bloombury lit - that we all like to read work that reflects ourselves, mm.

    ANTI-PEOPLE RACISM
     
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  10. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    @matwoolf -- I haven't checked out the publication you mentioned, but I can see where you are coming from. However, don't be fooled by formulaic bios. I just meant it was a good way to see what sort of things might be important in a cover letter to journals. As @Carly Berg said earlier, not all places even read cover letters. But not all literary journals are created equal, regardless of the bios in the back often sounding similar. The Paris Review, which is pretty much the top of the top, is so edgy and unexpected when it comes to the fiction it puts out. It's still literary fiction, for sure, but it takes risks and, I believe, publishes very original and anything-but-boring content. The Gettysburg Review is another good one I would say that also breaks the mold. My bio and cover letters are pretty standard, but hopefully my stories are not. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  11. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I know..:)

    I was indulging prejudice.
     
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  12. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Just curious... What sort of things are you working on? I know you write poetry. Do you also write literary short stories? I know that the literary world can seem like an exclusive club that has no interest in new members, but if they let me in, they can't be all that exclusive. :) And even though so many of them have "Review" in their name, they are quite different. A great one you might want to check out is McSweeney's Quarterly Concern. They are by far more quirky and fun than a lot of other journals. They also regularly publish great writers like Roddy Doyle. I believe he's from your side of the pond. He's really great with humor. I've seen a few novellas by him in McSweeney's that have been super great and fun to read.

    I do think it might be even harder to sell poetry to these places than fiction. I've dabbled in poetry, but I don't think I'm very good. I have poets I really enjoy, but I can't always tell a good poem from a bad one. Did you ever track down a photo of your bus stop poem? That's a pretty cool way to be published if you ask me.
     
  13. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I need to start something new.

    Drew the last couple of years to a close with a collection - and entered it in a contest - thinking 'I will win, I have to win.'

    So when I lose I'll hawk it out a half dozen times and then receiving six rejections I'll walk into the sea, or a factory.

    After the compilation of the collection, I wrote some quite wacko 2000s - thinking they were incredible and posted them away to the powerhouses of lit. Looking now they are rather strange and under-baked. But there's some decent enough titbits in the pipe, apols. I would like at least one to strike gold.

    Also, I spent an age on a life-write - turned it 3p, then tried to write it in Indian dialect to shift, loosen my mind-manacles - and became immersed in the treacle. I will have to ditch it. I've only done that two, three times before. The poetry is more hobby, I had a poetry submission rejected again, bleth...

    Should have put this in a pm, mmm. We've moved house 100s of miles away from anywhere so it's a strange time for me.
     
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  14. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    87-day rejection from Boulevard. I thought this was a personal rejection only I got the same exact thing before. Oh, well. It's a nice form, and I will try them again.
     
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  15. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    A very nice, personal rejection from Splickety just came in. Judging by its tone, the only reason it was rejected was for lack of space. The editor even took the time to make some general edits and recommendations in the file itself, along with encouraging me to submit more in the future.

    If I'm going to get rejected, this is the way I prefer it happen.
     
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  16. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Sounds like it was a close one. Sometimes it hurts more to be so close, but if they liked your work once, they will probably like something else from you. Good luck!
     
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  17. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Sometimes I send a story out once and then kind of forget about it or don't really think it's that great so it doesn't see much action. Then I have other stories I just refuse to give up on. I have one story that has been rejected more than 60 times. And I'm still trying with that one. Maybe a little crazy... However, I am yet to have a story accepted that hasn't been rejected a high number of times, though, 60 is the most I have tried with a story to date. What's the highest rejection count you've got with any of your stories? And what makes you or doesn't make you give up on a story?
     
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  18. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    And another one came in this afternoon. First time I've ever had two in the same day. On the up side, I can finally send that story out to places that don't take simultaneous submissions.
     
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  19. Krispee

    Krispee Contributor Contributor

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    That must be quite restrictive in terms of making any headway in publishing.
     
  20. Krispee

    Krispee Contributor Contributor

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    Haha, interesting story.
     
  21. Krispee

    Krispee Contributor Contributor

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    Does it? Not being a moron but is there any evidence that that actually makes a difference?
     
  22. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    My personal evidence would be my personal experience. Like I said, I didn't sell a story until after I had an MFA. And if you read the contributors bios for these publications, there are a lot of people with MFAs and/or impressive publishing histories. So, I believe these things do make a difference. And I was a reader for a literary journal where we always read cover letters. You've got to have a good story, of course, but there are often several levels a story has go through before it reaches the main editor. These things may bring you closer to that level, in my experience. Also, most people with an MFA can write a decent story. That's not to say someone without an MFA can't write as well or better, but there's no way they can really say that in a cover letter unless they have an impressive publishing history, which speaks for itself. Either of those things means readers usually read a little more.

    I know those two things would usually make me read a story to the end before making a decision to pass it up or reject it. People might not want to hear this, but with most stories the writer has two paragraphs to hook the first-round reader. If you can't get readers into your story in two paragraphs, it's usually going to be a rejection. There are always a lot of submissions to go through. People complain about wait times. I complain about wait times. But all this competition can clog the system a bit. When I was first hired I was reading every submission to the end even if I knew fairly early there was no way this story would ever be published by this journal. I was too slow. I was told that, and I was told about the first two paragraph thing. Often I would read on a little longer, but the first sign of a problem, I had to let it go because there was always a backlog to get through. Unless there was a reason in the cover letter to keep reading maybe until something else seemed wrong. Stories from people who have MFAs and are professionals usually submit more polished and refined work. I'm really not trying to say that anyone can't be a great writer and break in at any level. This is just what I've seen.

    I sold a story to a place none of my professors have, a place where two of my professors told me they subscribe to when I wanted to mail them copies. I had an MFA, but no publishing history at the time. I submitted to this place many times prior to earning an MFA and was always rejected with a form rejection and I'm pretty sure none of those submissions ever made it passed the first reader. Then, once I had an MFA, I broke in. Was the story that great? It was a story from my thesis so it had gone through a lot.

    However, I will say this. Though I think MFA programs are awesome and I wish anyone who wanted one could go for it, I know there is a lot of competition and then there is even more competition for funding. I lucked out with full funding and a stipend, making it possible for me to go. But about six months and a bunch of rejections after graduation, I reread my thesis. This was supposed to be my best work, what two years of intense study and writing taught me. My thesis sounded like an MFA thesis and not the short story collection I thought it was. I don't know if people can understand what I mean. My thesis was good. I worked harder on that than I have on any writing I've ever done. But I could see a difference between the professionals and an MFA candidate who just graduated. I rewrote some of my thesis stories, and then I sold some. I never could have rewritten what was once considered a good story if I never wrote it to begin with and workshopped it and had it critiqued and edited by my faculty thesis readers. Thesis stories go on a journey that most other stories don't. They come out polished. But even polished, six months later I felt like I had produced something considered good for a student. I wanted to run with the big dogs. Everything I learned in my MFA program taught me how to make these stories even better. It taught me a lot and prepared me to do this for real.

    If you have an MFA, you have polished stories and you know what that means. Plus, you are well read, given the reading load that comes with earning this degree. If you have impressive credits, the same is probably true.

    So, I guess some places it will matter and in some places it won't. But I think at the top it matters at least some in addition to having a killer story.
     
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  23. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    How diverse was the crowd on the MFA?

    Is there an entry requirement? Are 'bad' writers not allowed on an MFA?

    Yes, you're right about the two paragraphs. It's fairly rapid the comprehension that someone doesn't write so pretty...

    ...

    There's a well-worn track criticising MFA writers, I'm sure I stumbled across it a couple of years ago - 'preaching to the converted/identikit' - the usual...

    ...

    If I was one of the slush-readers - wouldn't I tire after a while with these crisp presentations? The bleeding virgin heart, sunset, the quest for discovery, every conflict established in the third line, [bleeding virgin heart doesn't really make sense, but it looks q.pretty]. Maybe I'd yearn for a messy submission, something less-educated, less self-conscious, a burger with a slice of asbestos?

    Anyway, I'm only playing. Probably need to read something decent, it's been a while.

    I'm looking at 'article' submission this weekend. Sent a proposal to the Guardian, and chopped an 800 down to 650 for an American newspaper's weekend magazine. Don't hold much hope for those two, but interesting path. I'll do some more - the 'haha/lifestyle' articles - 'my shit holiday' and such...

    ...editing a 'finished' piece down is difficult/dangerous.

    All best all
     
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  24. Funerary

    Funerary Member

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    Update - since last posting here I've received four rejections. I'm not American, and the literary journal pool I'm trying to break into is considerably smaller (though the market is still oversaturated), but there was this one journal I was hoping to get into that has published some big national names. I heard back from them last night. Turns out I made the shortlist for acceptance but didn't make the final cut. It's a bittersweet taste. I'm gonna submit to them again the next time they open submissions. Onwards and upwards.
     
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  25. Krispee

    Krispee Contributor Contributor

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    Didn't know the Guardian did short story submissions.
     

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