It is in keeping with the rest of the novel - what I didn't realise when I used simple basic placeholder names in my first novel was I would get accustomed to the names. Changing them is difficult. So the town by the sea is Seatown The Island with the De'il Sea surrounding it and the first cove where everything in the universe was created is Covesea Island I ended up with coming up with a story about Puritan Pilgrims from Earth coming to the Planet to explain why my characters are things like Jack and Alexander
I think that kind of naming system works well for places. People did tend to use such names. Perhaps more so in the past, but the names persist. There are many names across Europe that still carry the original celtic roots, and I bet a lot of them translate to simple, immediately apparent features of what they are naming.
Hahahahahahaha awesome debate! *hands out marshmallows and sticks* Let's roast smores! Really I don't mind the thread being "hijacked;" I don't see it that way; it's entertaining to read. Oh and thanks for the tips everyone...Elg your story sounds awesome. Regarding the "a good" stuff - you could say "a good" if you're talking about a commodity or store item, technically - although I realize that's not what anyone meant lol.
Ok, one problem I have with fantasy novels are that they always seem to tend towards epic adventures of 'save the world' and everything else kinda falls away. There seems to be limited character development and other subplots which characterize other genres of writing.
There are a lot of good fantasy novels that have all of these elements; there are also a lot of mediocre ones that do not.
I do agree with you on the point of DnD though. They do have a sufficiently developed magic system which is versatile enough to be used for many situations. The problems of dreaming up a new magic system is unless you're suddenly inspired in the middle of the night and have everything figured out, usually, you'd end up copying one of the systems already out there.
Hmm...I've done lots more outlining between when I started this thread and now...it seems to be the type of fantasy that involves people going on a quest through creepy, godforsaken lands and fighting monsters, etc on their way to a destination...but I don't have any spells/sorcery etc in it. I guess there's really no magic, unless you count nonexistent monsters (nonexistent in real life I mean) as magic...not sure what type of fantasy that is but it's developing nicely.
Hey, if you have good character development and plot you don't need magic. That's fun stuff but not essential.
I agree. But it's not all about the characters in the quest - I get into the creepiness of the scenes and creatures they deal with, and there's also a lot of suspense. And I included a government conspiracy in the city they're traveling to - hey I couldn't resist lol.
That's a good metaphor for life and I love that kind of story. In real life, all of us have to fight monsters without magic and frequently others, who don't even know us, have stacked the deck for our defeat. I think stories like that can be very encouraging. Keep us posted!
I'm getting some Conan vibes from your magicless land of creepdom. And Conan has some of the best "Low Fantasy" yarns around. I highly reccamend them.
The fact that "Evil" is listed as a noun in the dictionary doesn't mean anything. Dictionaries and encyclopedias have words and terms like "Zeus", "vampire" and "witch", but that's no guarantee that these things are real. The reason evil can be found as a noun is because of its history in fundamentalist religious ideas, not because of anything related to reality. I've played a ton of D&D myself and met a ton of others who did and what was the greatest and most frequent gripe people had with the game system was the absolutist alignments. It's a system based on simplified prejudice and unwillingness to see things from more than one side. Even some of the most hardcore gamers have outgrown it. Evil is used as a term to dehumanize those who oppose your own, self-righteous views and keep you from reflecting on things further. Basically, a system for willing dumbification of oneself, and a system that doesn't fit into todays society -- any serious practicioner of moral philosophy wouldn't give you the time of day if you capitalized "evil". Go ahead and write fantasy with absolute good and evil -- it can well be very entertaining for some readers, but don't expect your story to be discussed in ethics class.
That's your opinion. The funny thing on the D&D discussion is how you guys played the game. That approach doesn't make sense to me. I've played a lot myself, and I can't remember treating alignment that way. Maybe when I started playing at around age 12 we did - I don't recall. The alignment system in D&D is as absolute or as relative as you want it to be as players. It all comes down to the implementation.
Well, no. The concept can be traced back to religion. It has no other sources. It wouldn't make sense for it to have either, since it's a metaphysical concept.
The reason evil is a noun is because it is used as such in the English Language - in someways history is less important than current usage with words. Wicked is a good example in 2010 you can't be a 100% sure if it means good or bad, my Gran knew what it meant
Really, in a debate about evil, there's not much place for gaming or loyalty. There are the facts, all of which are invented nonetheless, and nothing else. Anyone with at least half a brain will agree that the point of an elegant debate, something more similar to a work of art than a mere agrument, is to determine the truth. Forcing opinions merely prove the bias of the speaker. This is why I switch sides so often, and poke holes through my own argument, even criticizing my allies. I debate for the truth, not bias and not social stigmas. To this end, there is no such thing as a noun form of evil, because evil is a concept and receives its noun status from such a definition. Evil does not exist, because logic tells us that everything has a cause, although not everything has a goal. Insanity is not evil, character flaws are not evil, all are merely effects of a cause. The ones we consider evil oppose us, or are delusional. It's difficult to grasp, but each of us is nothing but another of the crowd. One of the "sheep" in our own way, yearning to feel like we know true logic.The brilliant rise above the chaff, but never escape the chains of belief. Even as I write now, aware that my perception is merely an opinion, I will defend it with the fiber of my soul, because I believe, and nothing more, that it is the most likely opinion. I am correct, because you do not know more of the subject than I, and because in the dealings of emotion, we are all incorrect and correct at the same time. There is only perception as to the mind.
The truth as I know it is that there is no good or evil. It's a game we play to better experience the experience of living. There is only the Force.
Being traced back to there doesn't mean it is wrong. As you hint at, it can't be demonstrated either way. So, again, opinion.
As Horus hinted at, this sort of metaphysical question can't be conclusively answered in either way. So I put it in the category of belief, opinion, etc. You and I may agree that evil is not an independent, absolute force in and of itself. I know people who believe that it is. I can't prove them wrong, nor they me. If you're concerned about reason in debate, then I think you have to admit that the subject matter simply isn't susceptible to proof by either side. The alignment issue is just an aside that interests me, particularly in that so many people approach RPGs in such a simplistic manner.
This debate is bizarre to me. If we're talking about real life, then I believe that there is no good and evil. The famous Cognitive Behavioral Therapist, Aaron Beck wrote a book on the topic called Prisoners of Hate, which is a good, but sad read. The idea is that everyone thinks they're good/justified in their behavior. There's all kinds of thought errors associated with this and it's the classic one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. The weird part of the debate for me is that in creative writing one can invent a whole new universe and anything goes there. Evil be a little old lady, a mountain, a monkey, or anything you say. It's only wrong if the story sucks. What are you guys focused on here?
I think people are talking about a little bit of both. Clearly, in a fictional world you can embody evil however you wish, just as you said. It can in fact be a tangible 'thing.' This argument is more concerned with real life, and the fact that 'evil' is both a noun and an adjective. Some people view that as problematic, because they say evil cannot be a noun in their view. Of course, many people firmly disagree with that in their own belief system. The language should be (and is) flexible enough to allow expression of both ideas, and whether evil as a noun has an independent existence its expression as such through language certainly exists, and so identifying it as both noun and adjective is proper.
Fact is though a fantasy novel isn't real life - in fact I think that would be a tip - don't try too hard for it to be 'real.' Beauty of writing fantasy is it allows a freer reign for the imagination than any other genre. As long as you can come up with a reason why that works that way in your world it does not matter what you do. Have fun writing it because no other genre will give you the freedom to explore what your imagination is capable of. My first novel became fantasy by accident - I needed a way for my first person present tense narrator to observe a scene at the Queen's Guard base. He is the King and the King is not allowed on the base. In the end I turned him into a bird. From there the magic came into being. As long as you can back up what you are writing in the context of the world you created you can do whatever you like. It just has to be believable when you are reading it. I mean how many orcs, dragons, bird people etc do you know in your everyday life? Mallory have fun with it - if perfectly good and perfectly bad people work in your story that is fine - because it is another world and they are not real. Just have an explanation plausible to your world that explains it. I think that is the key - it has to work in context beyond that there are no real rules. My books have people who are part bird, their planet is fixed in time and space and the universe revolves around them, the universe is a living breathing organism inside the Universal Father etc none of it is realistic lol but link it together it gives a good reason for why everything works the way it does. EDIT: LOL How many posts saying the same thing can be typed at once ? (I spent ages typing mine the previous two weren't there when I started).
