What you call rules are actually guidelines as to what typically works best, and what does not. Then again, if you know it all, then you don't need advice on anything. That's all fine, too.
There is no rule that dictates how long a sentence should be. You can make them as long or as short as you want. I find that it is best to vary between shorter and longer sentences. Not necessarily on a pre-determined ratio. It all depends on what you're writing. If you're writing a first draft, you should focus more on getting the story onto the paper/screen than you should about what it looks like on paper. When it's time for revision, read your work aloud and listen for places where it sounds like long sentences could be broken up or short sentences could be expanded.
We all face the same obstacle when expressing our thoughts - coming up with the right words and format, especially when words are all too often insufficent. Effective writing (communication) is all about overcoming obstacle #1. The so-called rules of writing are not obstacles; they are the solution. The question of a long or short sentence depends on myriad possibilities within the work itself, all in the interest of effective communication. If your sentence communicates poorly, it's a poor sentence. The most common way to generate a poor sentence is to write a long one when you don't know how to manage them. In the context of a paragraph it can be nice to have a certain variety to best stimulate the mind. . . That, to me, is the nature of writing - always trying to find that (impossible) perfect combination of words. But until you've mastered the art, short and simple sentences tend to be a safer bet. Bland and clear beats complex, muddled and confusing every time.
What works and what does not is always subject to change. Examine the writing of Thoreau compared to the writing of Paolini. The sentences are as different as the pores on the paper. Thoreau was very "thorough" in his writing, and many sentences tended to be long. Paolini writes very modern, with short, concise, unadorned, very boring sentences. Perhaps, in the future, we'll be writing like Poe or Thoreau did in their times, but the worst way to write is to write in a way that is popular or preferred. For christ's sakes, write with your heart and mind, and pay no heed to these fabricated standards.
It all boils down to something Maia told me about writing that I have taken to heart: every word you use is important. Why do I tend to prefer shorter, more concise sentences instead of purple prose writing? Because in literature every word is important, as is its placement and meaning. Write how you want to; however, keep that thought in mind. Words have power and they need to be used selectively.
Well, I certainly agree with everything except that "purple prose" writing as you coined it is meaningless. Some of the greatest works hit a chord with me that no modern piece of literature have ever done.
Sinbad, who said anything about following dusty old conventions? We're talking about learning from the experiences of others. We get plenty of members who are quick to advise people to ignore all advice. In my opinion, that is ill-advised. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
When it comes to assessing whether your long or short sentences are working for you, I find it helps to read them out loud. When I do this I get a better feel for which bits seem overly staccato and choppy, or are too long winded and leave me gasping for breath. This obviously isn't a hard and fast rule for choosing sentence length, but it will certainly help you become more aware of the flow and rhythms of the piece; where it's strong, where it's weak, and so on. M x
Who said anything about ignoring advice? I encourage discussion, discourse and, importantly, advice. The problems lies in when people think they must follow a set of guidelines when writing, and that just leads to bad writing. What is more, too many members think that short, concise sentences work the best, and anything with more than two adjectives in the same sentence is purple prose and should not be used. It's absolutely trendy thinking and it goes against the visage of free thought and absolute expression. I suppose my first post was really geared towards a general viewpoint that I find in many forums, that's all. I don't know that you and I really have any quarrel, unless you don't agree with my assessment on free thought. What I'll add to the thread is this: use whatever sentence suits your writing. If someone disagrees with the usage, don't be afraid to dispute, but don't be ignorant and not listen.
I don't think you'll find many people here who would always advise against "purple prose". The problem is simply that many beginning writers are unnecessarily verbose in their writing, and at this point, its more important to develop the basics than to focus on stylistic embellishments (which, ultimately, is what successful "purple prose" usually is - look at Nabokov for instance). The notion that every word counts doesn't necessarily imply that short sentences are better, just that every word should serve a purpose in your work and not be "just another adjective".
Purple prose is by definition undesirable. If it is not excessive, the term purple prose is not used.
I don't agree at all. A writer should just write and write and practice and practice. If he's inspired by the writing of Victorian writers, then who am I to say "you can't do that yet". I don't like these standards or guidelines, and they do more to hurt the writer than anything else. That is certainly not true. I've seen too many people call the works of writers from Dickens to Poe, "purple prose." I and a friend, who has posted here, believe that the term is redundant and serves a very petty purpose. But, I think that we are both going off topic, and we should leave it at that.
It is indeed true. The term purple prose does mean excessively flowery and complicated writing. Excess is part of the definition of the term. Just because YOU don't believe the works cited are excessively flowery does not mean that others agree with you. If they refer to it as purple prose, then they believe the language is excessively ornate. Unless, of course, they are ignorant of the meaning of the term purple prose. It is a derogatory term.
You did. What do you think those guidelines are? They are advice passed along to assist novice writers from making the same mistakes as many others have made. And again. You say you are in favor of advice, and yet you tell people to pay no heed to it. Of course write with your heart and mind. But if someone hands out advice, give it due consideration. You might learn something (God forbid).
No, that is indeed what the term is, but it is frequently used to refer to works of the Victorian era. I've seen it done many times. Also, excessively flowery and complicated writing is what I like -- that's what I read. I'll take Melville, Emerson over Paolili and Rowling any day. What is your point? If I disagree that the term applied to Dickens is wrong, then I'm going to disagree and make it known. It is a derogatory term, and I believe it is redundant. I've seen examples of purple prose, and none of them represent any kind of literature ever published. What is more, they don't represent amateur literature neither. I think if a young writer is inspired by Melville and Dickens, then let him be inspired and write the way he wishes. If you think you can give him advice, then give it to him, but don't tell him to not write the way he wants because he isn't a "good writer" yet.
No, advice, as I see it, is giving other writers examples of how they might make a sentence different, what word they might replace another with, and something of that sort. But telling others when and where to use a short and long sentence is stretching advice a bit. I bet where many of you would use a short sentence, there was a long sentence that worked even better, but how would any of you know that by following guidelines? Hopefully, you will understand that I had made the discrimination between advice and guidelines. I tell people to pay no heed to guidelines. Advice isn't telling others what kind of sentences they should use. If it's long or short, stay away from it and focus on his word usage, his dialog, especially his sentence structure. Do the cases match up? Does this make sense? And if a sentence is convoluted, how can you make it more precise? I agree entirely.
From wiki, purple prose is "a term of literary criticism used to describe passages, or sometimes entire literary works, written in prose so overly extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw attention to itself." So, it is usually looked down upon. However, critics accuse some of today's best writers of using it, so I guess in some cases it depends upon what an individual thinks is "extravagant, ornate, or flowery". As for Victorian literature, it could be seen as purple prose. But that was the style of writing back then. It wasn't until Hemingway came along that we saw prose that was short and to the point. Perhaps another 100 years from now our writing today will be seen as purple prose.
But don't you think it's trendy to write a certain way because it is accepted? I think it's more harmful to follow trends and continue literary stagnation than break new boundaries and express your thoughts the way you want to express them.
"Trendy" is a very difficult term to apply to literature. Certainly there have been over-arching movements and styles, but at the same time Hemingway was publishing with his sparse Modernist style, Nabokov was publishing the earliest of his fiction, which, as anyone who has read those authors will tell you, are both very dissimilar and yet characteristically "modern". The same year American Psycho was published, John Updike won a Pulitzer. There is very rarely a uniformity in literary styles, and so very rarely a stylistic feature that becomes "trendy". Anyway, I think this is turning into an argument for the sake of argument. Surely if someone wrote, of one of your pieces, "this sentence might be better if it was shorter" you would give that criticism due regard, consider the alternatives, and make a decision based on the suggestion. This is all we are trying to suggest here - the almost unanimous conclusion reached a few pages ago was that both short and long sentences have their place and function, and that a writer would do well to use both in their work. No one ever called for the exclusion of long sentences, no one said never evevr use a short sentence, and we are not imposing rules. It is a simple fact: writers need to use a variety of sentences to write effectively.
Trendy is the wrong word. I understand the point that Sinbad is trying to make, but it is simply incorrect. Writing to achieve publication isn't trendy; it's practical if you wish to have a career in writing (living the dream). If you don't aim to be published, then by all means, be a rebel. Let the hapless masses and stuffy, opinionated know-it-alls sneer all they like; you know your writing is grand. Just know that you're writing for a very limited audience.
Sinbad: you say following guide lines hinder the writer, but who is to say what will and wont hold back or help a writer flourish? You obviously follow guidelines to a certain extent using apostrophes, commas, periods, so obviously you found use of those guidelines right? So who is to say that further guidance wouldn't benefit a writer that found use in other guidelines? Also, knowing a good guideline.......hold on one second, I don't like the term "guideline" they are more like social norms of the writing world, that end up being like a guideline.......anyways, knowing these rules, can help you understand when and if you choose to break them how to do it more efficiently, and portray some kind of understanding to the readers that, "I know what I'm doing, i wrote it like this on purpose." instead of them thinking that the Author has a second grader's education. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because you don't believe in following guidelines, guidelines are subconsciously built between authors and readers that can be followed or not but KNOWN in either case, and that even though they are seen as guidelines, they still are considered as advice. Have you ever seen a rule book about prison shower etiquette? me either but I'm sure dropping the soap made the list of guidelines to follow, and I'm sure it's a great piece of advice as well. oh and on a side note: I met a guy that told me, "Dropping it isn't the hard part, its the picking up of the soap that proves difficult."
