Hmmm, women can work if they want, I don't see why not. I guess he didn't call it work based on the common assumption that people get paid to work, I'd call homemaking slave labor. And in response to Felipe's observation that househusbands are "bums": I guess that househusbands are frowned upon because it goes against our societies gender roles and, I know I'm making a generalisation here, but typically men are rather hopeless at homemaking.
it's going to take a lot more than a surplus of delicious sandwiches to make me trust yall girls after that one bad apple..... in that garden that one time..
ahem! how come you're blaming eve?... why should she have to take the rap when it was weak-'n-stupid adam who actually ate the damn apple and the evil ol' serpent who hung it out there?... besides which, eve only took a bite when commanded to do so by her lord and master, her to-be-obeyed-or-else husband! you guys!
Well, part of the point of the story was to further marginalize women's power on spiritual matters, where they had often held some authority prior to that point in time. So of course Eve gets the blame! Indicting the serpent is also a sort of backhanded slap at Eve.
um...if adam and eve were the only humans per 'the story' then how could 'women' have held anything 'prior' to then? how so, when the serpent is a universal symbol of male sexuality, given it's 'phallacious' shape?
People were around long before that story came along. The serpent is not a "universal" male symbol. Its association with the female, and with life, predates the later association with the male. The serpent, long ago, was a life symbol, which is apparently symbolism that is still preserved in languages today. From what I've read, the Hebrew word for Eve and for serpent are quite similar if not the same. You're viewing things only through the later masculine symbols that were ascribed to the serpent, but the tie to the female is much older than that. It is one of the oldest symbols tied to the female.
Also very true. The interesting thing about the image of a snake biting it's own tail is how widespread it is. Not just Ancient Meditation, but also in South America and Asia too. The Oruoboros is obviously a symbol of great age.
I am a stay-at-home dad, with a 16-month old girl and a five-year old boy. I write and I'm an independent contractor, giving courses and seminars in conflict resolution. My wife works full-time in ICT as a software tester. Due to her exceptional high intelligence and M.Sc degree she can earn more money than I can. We both like this situation way better than before, when I worked full-time and she was a stay-at-home mom.
These idiots think that giving women driver's licenses will lead to adultery. I wouldn't listen to anything they say. Their goal is to live in the stone age.
I think that another extremist also proposed that if women dressed provocatively it would cause earthquakes. So yeah these people aren't worth listening to.
There are extremists everywhere. I lived next door to an American missionary family in Turkey once; the wife had hair down to her knees, and seven children who were home schooled and not allowed to play with Turkish children. The husband was a total control freak. Obviously, women 'should' be allowed to live their lives as they see fit, whether it involves going out to work or doing a job of work as a homemaker, it's up to them. I didn't need to work before--I looked after the kids and did private lessons, translation work etc at home. Then, I nearly went insane with boredom. Now, I'd give my teeth to have that freedom back again. Maybe if business continues to improve, I'll be able to stop going out to work.
steerpike... i'm happy to say we aren't in disagreement at all... i was merely addressing [with tongue fully in cheek!] the biblical myth that i thought you were referring to, only to learn from your later posts that you seemed not to be... as a full-time practicing philosopher, i'm well aware of those countless antecedents to the OT's tall tales, having been studying humankind's history and behavior in depth, for many decades now... tragi-comedy at its best [or would that be its 'worst'? ]
In a sense, but also: - While I'm smart and capable, I don't have the papers to prove it. My wife has papers showing her higher education, which lead to better and higher paying jobs. - because I dislike being led by people claiming to be my 'superior', I'm not thriving under employment, but better suited being my own boss and planning my day without the aid of an authority. I'm also disciplined enough not to abuse that 'freedom'. My wife has trouble making her own schedules and tends to get 'lost' in activities that prevent her from doing all she aims to achieve. And she has no trouble accepting authority, so for her to be employed is less stressful. - because my wife is less emotionally stable than I am, the children [who are both quite temperamental] tend to behave better under my consistent guidance. - I don't mind the 'solitary' existence of being a 'houseman', because I get my intellectual stimulation from writing, reading and interacting with others through media such as this forum. My wife is more socially inclined and missed having colleagues and intellectual companionship when she was a 'housewife'. Also, while she's more socially inclined [she likes human companionship more than I do], she's more introverted and I'm actually better in social interaction, so if I do get the need for companionship, it's not difficult for me to find someone to talk to, while my wife is less inclined to initiate conversations. So, for both of us, the current situation is way better suited to our wants and needs than the previous situation.
I like your commonsense and practical approach. Some people worry too much about how society sees them and the way things are supposed to be. But you don't mind deviating from the societal norm and doing what works. Much respect and I'm really honored to know you.
Thank you. I have to say, I live in the Netherlands, where being a stay-at-home dad [especially one who also writes and works as a conflict resolution and self defense instructor] is respected and not considered outside the society norm. I can understand how some societies might consider my position less 'manly' then being the primary breadwinner, but the male lion also takes care of the young ones while the female lions hunt to provide food for the family. Like the lion, I'm rarely accused of being a wimp for taking care of our children while my wife goes out to earn money. Taking care of your offspring is a respectable and honorable task, regardless of your gender.
Has anyone here said women shouldn't be able to work? Not enough controversy here. But what do you think of female quotas in schools or workplaces? Here in Finland when you apply to a vocational college, you earn extra points if your gender is in the minority in that particular field. There's a presidential election coming up too and one candidate supported the idea of introducing a mandatory female quota in the leadership of corporations. I think that is discriminatory in two ways: it punishes men for our gender, especially those men who aren't sexist in any way, since we shouldn't pay the blame for true sexists, it also implies women aren't able to make it on their own. In a truly equal society, there should be no quotas, everyone should be judged on their own merits. I'm all for gender equality, but it also works the other way around. Right now in divorce proceedings the mother has a much better change of getting custody, denying visitation rights for the father and still making them pay alimony, women can abort their children without even asking the father and in here women don't have to go to the army. The old saying "woman's euro is 80 cents" is true only because women don't apply well-paid jobs more often and don't ask for a raise so much, there's not a single company that actually pays lesser wages for women doing the same work as men. While women are discriminated against in some ways, other things make up for it. Two wrongs make a right. Someone said forbidding women from working would mean going back to the stone age, but that's an insult against the stone age. Before agriculture, people in general lived more equal lives, not just genderwise but also lacking hierarchical, authoritarian structures. In the stone age and in the existing tribes that still live without agriculture and civilization, women and men work equally and both even work less than us civilized humans and everyone is happy.
