1. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    60

    Some resources I need.

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by waitingforzion, Nov 2, 2017.

    I am looking for three resources:

    1. A complete reference grammar of the English language.

    2. A dictionary dealing with meaning and usage.

    3. An excellent thesaurus with synonyms and antonyms.

    I prefer them to be online, accessible for free, and dealing with standard, modern English.

    Can anyone help?
     
  2. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,432
    1) Unfortunately, this may be complicated. English is a messy language and every rule has an exception.
    2) type "define:word" into google and hit search, it's a built-in feature.
    3) type "synonym word" into google. I do that all the time, google parses the top hit and gives you the info you need.
     
  3. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    8,763
    For 2) and 3), Merriam-webster.com is my preferred resource. It's a dictionary and thesaurus, and the thesaurus is really good. You type in your word, hit "thesaurus" and the result includes antonyms as well.

    As for 1), just one book won't do it. As @newjerseyrunner said, there are many contradictions in rules. It also depends on what type of writing you want to do. Academic voice is different from other types of writing, and the English you learn in a college composition classes is different than what is needed for contemporary fiction...which is different from newspaper writing...which is different from magazine writing...which is different from online writing...so you need references for what you plan to write. (Comma placement for print newspapers is different than what one learns in English Comp class, for example.)

    I have two whole shelves of them, but the ones I use the most are, in order of frequency:

    The Elements of Style by Strunk & White

    Chicago Manual of Style (updated regularly & I need to renew my online membership)

    A Grammar Book for You and I (Oops, Me) by C. Edward Good (this one is great because it teaches how to break the rules to be conversational, as well as conventional academic voice)

    Eats Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss (this one is actually a punctuation guide that was a British best seller)

    The Little, Brown Handbook (this is actually a college textbook)

    Edit: forgot the word print in front of newspapers
     
  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    Write something, and read a book written in the past fifty years.
     
    BayView, big soft moose and xanadu like this.
  5. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,864
    Likes Received:
    10,738
    Location:
    The great white north.
    The OWL Purdue Online Writing Lab is a good resource I used a lot in school.
     
  6. NiallRoach

    NiallRoach Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    The middle of the UK
    Every language is messy and complicated, and linguists still wrote comprehensive grammars for some of the most obscure ones out there.
     
  7. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    The dictionary you want, need, must have, crave, and will love forever is the complete Oxford English Dictionary. This is it: the be-all and end-all, alpha and omega, mother of all English dictionaries. I have a copy of the Compact OED2 (the "nine-up" referred to in the Wikipedia article linked), and it could easily serve as the cornerstone of a major building. Still, woooah, eh? Woooah!!
    ;)
     
    Shenanigator and big soft moose like this.
  8. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    9,502
    Likes Received:
    9,758
    Location:
    England
    I used to do this - post for the sake of posting. Still do in the garbage threads.

    All the things the OP needs could be at his fingertips within minutes, and I'm sure he knows this.
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,613
    Likes Received:
    25,915
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Shenanigator likes this.
  10. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    60
    Thanks everybody for your responses.

    ChickenFreak, I don't know why you keep repeating the same thing even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It doesn't make me want to take your advice.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,613
    Likes Received:
    25,915
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    If you aren't going to follow her advice and write something you are kind of wasting your time on a forum for writers
     
  12. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    60
    The problem is not the advice itself. It's the fact that she keeps repeating the same sentence so much that it sounds rude. I asked a question about dictionaries, thesauruses and grammar, to which she responded with a statement that was completely irrelevant and unnecessary. It may be, for all you know, that I did not even intend to write much of anything, but was simply looking for these resources for purposes dealing with a short piece of writing, such as a sentence. Any statement about my previous threads, or my intentions expressed in previous threads, do not belong here.

    Also, the advice in her statement was not the advice I was talking about, but the advice she has given me in other threads, advice which says that I should abandon all focus on rhythm, advice which I do not have to take, regardless of whether I want to write.
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,613
    Likes Received:
    25,915
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Pretty much you need to own your own behaviour, you've pissed chicken (and a lot of other people) off by being ungrateful and argumentative (FFS you wrote a poem about how those giving your crit were wrong), you then promised to change your behaviour but there's no sign that you have.

    Remember the parable about reaping what you sow ? This sort of thing is your harvest.

    Putting that to one side I don't really care if you write anything or not, or for that matter whether you continue to sound like a cheap imitation of the king james bible - but please don't misrepresent the advice you were given, which wasn't to abandon all focus on rhythm, but rather to stop putting cadence ahead of content.
     
    Shenanigator and ChickenFreak like this.
  14. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    60
    There was every sign that my behavior had changed until now. I was not arguing with anyone, but was accepting critiques and revising my work.

    The poem I wrote was not intended to be a serious complaint about the members of this forum, nor was it intended to offend anyone. You took it too seriously when it was nothing more than a writing exercise.

    Reaping what you sow is a natural consequence, not a justification for vengeance by those who are not God.

    I apologize for misrepresenting advice.
     
  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,613
    Likes Received:
    25,915
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Bull****

    This is what I mean about owning your own actions - you write stuff like that, then you act all surprised when people see their ass with you, and you can't even be honest about what you wrote or what people said to you

    You want to know why Chicken seems pissed off with you - look at your own actions towards her.

    As for me I'm putting you on ignore.
     
    ChickenFreak likes this.
  16. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    1,264
    Location:
    Chicago, IL.
     
  17. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    There was no such sign; there was a pretense. And, "until now"? Meaning, now you'll drop the pretense?
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  18. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    60
    There was no pretense. But honestly if this is how the community of writingforums.org is, (and many others have left here with complaints), I don't want to be bothered with it anymore. I will go some place else.
     
  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,613
    Likes Received:
    25,915
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Moving on .... question here does the OED have an american version with american spellings, or do you guys just get the OED exactly like we have it with Colour, Antagonise,etc
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  20. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    I've never seen an American-spelling OED. I grew up in Canada and most of our spellings were British, so that worked out fine. I've used British dictionaries my whole life and have made accommodation for American spelling where it seems appropriate (jail for gaol, tire for tyre, etc.). I think most modern British dictionaries list American spellings alongside the British ones.
     
  21. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    8,763
    True in terms of completeness, but writing classes I took in college, as well as some print newspapers, required Merriam-Webster for consistency's sake (because not everyone could afford the hard copy of Oxford, and online dictionaries did not yet exist).

    So, for the OP, when it comes to resources, always consider what publication you're targeting. That's extremely important.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice