1. YGGDoc

    YGGDoc New Member

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    SPYBUG - I am writing a book & need some medical expertise contribution.

    Discussion in 'Research' started by YGGDoc, Jul 17, 2021.

    In the story, the subject/victim, has to physically remove a "spybug" which was forcibly inserted into his skull (frontal sinus) at a very young age, by a covert criminal organisation.

    (The frontal sinuses are hollow "air pockets" situated just above the eye sockets in the frontal portion of the skull). These hollows are ideal for spybug implants - as they have no known other anatomical/physiological uses - and that is a medical fact.

    Decades later he finds out that he was implanted, and must figure out how to remove it, before it mulfunctions and kills him, or they use the covert "spybug" for other nefarious deeds.

    How would this be possible to remove, and which tools would be needed to use, if he must do this alone?

    [At this point, anyone with any medical knowledge contribution/suggestions would be useful].

    i.e accessing through the frontal bone with some kind of drill and/or using a tool through the nasal wall/cavity.

    (remember! - he has to do this alone)!

    In the book, the covert organisation responsible, has infiltrated the global medical industry, with corruption and crooked medical staff, therefore the victim is unable to do the surgical removal by "trusted professionals" and must figure out how to do it alone.

    In the book, it has to be as detailed as possible - to emphasize the intensity of the situation. (and by being as anatomically correct as possible will increase its impact on the reader).

    How will he remove the spybug?

    Thanks to anyone with any medical expertise in helping with information contributing to my book.
     
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    It occurs to me that if it needs to be removed surgically that would mean it was inserted surgically. How would that have been done without his realizing it? We would have woke up with pain where the incision was made and a scar. Especially considering as a child he was much smaller than as an adult. I would think about it being inserted by just shoving it up in there with some adhesive or something, or it has little hooks that root it in place. Or it's just too big to fall out by itself. Then he'd probably just have to go fishing up in there with some kind of long narrow tweezers or something and yank it out. But i would also search to see if things can be put up in there and not fall out bey themselves.
     
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  3. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    What exactly does the spybug do? Does it somehow connect to the optic nerve or just sit there?

    If it just sits there, couldn't there be other places to put it, like the tracking chip in ' The Bourne Legacy'?

    There's a scene in a 'Saw II' where one of the victims has a key inserted under his eyesocket I think. He didn't win that game unfortunately, but your character may have the willpower/training to extract the spybug with the right instruments.
     
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  4. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    It can be done but he'd need a bone saw and a mirror and I can't see him doing it without anesthesia or really strong pain meds. Also, it's going to bleed profusely. Antibiotics would be a good idea and you need one that covers the likely contamination that would occur. And he'll need an antiseptic to clean the site and the tools. Surgical gloves would be a good idea.

    You would do better to pick another location for this device.

    Brain Surgery in Ancient Times shows one can drill a hole in your skull without antibiotics or modern tools, but a brain infection would easily occur in your scenario.
     
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  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Not a medical professional, so you can take this with a grain of salt (actually, take anything I say with a grain of salt) but here's how I'd write it: he tries to do it himself, either through the nose or other method and fails, either because he can't tolerate the pain, passes out, etc.

    He's discovered and ends up on the street in an alley, or possibly put in a psych ward for evaluation because he appears crazy or suicidal. He meets a tin foil hat character that recognizes his wounds and says

    "They put one of them spybugs in you too, didn't they! You can't remove them. Only thing you can do is fry 'em. They thought they could control me, but I was struck by lightning first."

    And somehow the tin foil guy is right.
     
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  6. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Meh, just use the thing Arnold used in Total Recall to pull the tracker from his dome. Doubt the nose will stretch like Arnold's did though:
     
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  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    upload_2021-7-17_16-26-43.png
     
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  8. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Years ago I worked with a gentleman who had severe allergy problems. At one point, he had his sinuses roto rootered. It was done as an outpatient procedure, and I'm pretty sure there were no incisions involved. The sinuses connect to the nasal passages, so I think they just went in that way.

    I doubt that anyone could do it for themselves, though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  9. KiraAnn

    KiraAnn Senior Member

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    Just a thought, but if it was done “decades ago”, is that organization still around, necessitating the need for removal?

    If so, then surely by now (in the story), that would be public knowledge? And possibly an underground organization dedicated to removing those trackers?

    Of course, that is the plot, more or less, of a short story titled Blade Runner which has nothing to do with the movie.
     
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  10. SoupSpoon

    SoupSpoon New Member

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    I had a vaguely similar scenario and decided it wasn't do-able. In mine I had a trusted friend do the procedure for our hero on the kitchen table after they'd stolen everything they needed from a vet surgery.
    they also got a cylinder of Nitrous oxide and lashings of local anesthetic from the vet, the mask with the gas bottle was designed for a large dog, but hey, it worked.
    You will be pleased to know my hero survived, became a mighty witch and went on to rule the world.
    She had some minor scarring from the amateurish stitching and it took her ages to figure out her 'friend' had actually signed her name in the stitching using morse code.
     
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  11. XenaLin

    XenaLin New Member

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    So many things that I never seem to finish ..
    It would definitely hurt so a strong painkiller or local anestesia is needed. Preferably he/she/they would be sleeping while this is done but seeing as he/shethey must do it alone .. that wouldn't be an option.

    If going through bone, you'd need a drill or something to get through the bone, then you'd need to put the bone back once removing the bug, sow tissues and skin back. After that you'd need antibiotics and a daily dressing, most likely several times a day.
    If you're going through the nose, well you'd do it kind just by feeling .. and being numbed you wouldn't feel the pain but you'd feel something.

    Either way you'd still kind of need to know what you're doing, and either way you'd still need antibiotics to prevent an infection and you'd need painkillers as well since you've been in the sinuses and "dug around" in there.
     
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  12. trevorD

    trevorD Senior Member

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    It would take an ENT performing endoscopic sinus surgery under general anesthesia (with an endotrachial tube). This means you slip in a thin camera in the nare and snake it all the way into the sinus and then do what you need to do. You can try to do it under local, but the problem is you get bleeding that trickles back post nasally and you can aspirate it directly, you can trigger laryngospasm, or you swallow it and then aspirate the gastric contents, if there were any (why we make people NPO before surgery. Typically, in a surgery such as a FESS, they stick cocaine-soaked nasal packs in the nares afterward to constrict the blood vessels in the nasopharynx and those stay in for a while. They're a bitch to take out though. It ain't the most comfortable thing to have done. Hope that helps!!
     
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  13. YGGDoc

    YGGDoc New Member

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    Perhaps Hollywood still has that thing lying around somewhere.
    Would be interesting to see how much its worth..
     
  14. YGGDoc

    YGGDoc New Member

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