Stories submitted to contests re submitted to workshop?

The workshop is a great place to get help with your writing. It’s also a good place to learn how to give critiques. I have learned a lot there. I think it would be positive to get more texts posted there.

The contest stories deserve better than just be left in a locked thread, where you can’t find them either by author or genre.

Some authors re submit stories from the contests to the workshop but these are very few.

I know that I would have commented on some of the stories in the contests if they had been posted to the workshop.

Would it be possible that the contest administrators urge the submitters to also post their stories in the workshop after the contest? In such case the authors could also say something about the story that is not possible for an anonymous post.

 

Critique for stories should not occur outside the Workshop.

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I can't really see a problem with adding a suggestion to post contest entries to the Workshop (after the contest ends) to the contest announcements, as long as it is clear that it is optional. Tagging @Tenderiser, @thirdwind and @theoriginalmonsterman since they are in charge of the contests.

 

Lots of people give their thoughts on the short stories, either in the voting thread or the results thread. They don't tend to be as in-depth as workshop critiques, but I don't think we should be offering detailed critiques unless specifically requested (by posting in the workshop). Unsolicited critique is rude.

To clarify, by entering the contests I think you agree for them to be judged, in the manner of "I voted for X because X. I liked X but didn't vote for it because X." I don't think you agree for it to be dissected and all its flaws pointed out, like you could expect in the workshop.

 

^ Agreed. Some people don't want their entries to be critiqued, which is totally fine. We don't want to start unsolicited critiques since I'm sure that would negatively affect participation in the contests.

I do agree that we need more Workshop entries though.

 

Initiate a read one shitty one/and two new members are forced to read my/your story system? Similar to a 'you can only comment on the 'Unhappiness Thread' when you have read Mat's story and sent him a nice PM. I'd like that a lot. It would require vigilant monitors/moderation with expenses paid. Something I shall do [it] when asked, if you want - in the memory of @Wreybies and Frederico, with @Moose as godfather if at all possible.

Is this the right thread, should this be a stickied post?

 

I enter most of the contests, but I never submit those stories to the workshop. My reason for it is that some people who give critique in there, are just really harsh. I don't mind getting feedback on a story, not at all. I think it can help to improve my writing, and I can learn new things. But I see people saying things like 'This is awful, your writing doesn't work, here is a list with every single thing that you need to change'. Then they go on and suggest they change literally every single sentence of a story, and say how much that sentence sucks. I find that harsh, and I don't want feedback like that. It wouldn't motivate me to enter another contest if people would start doing that in the contests. So that's my reason for not submitting things to the workshop.

 

I didn't think this through completely. I will leave it.

But I still think it's sad that the entries sortof gets lost. You can't find them by genre or by author.

The contest entries are usually 'better' (or at least more finished) than many entries in the workshop.
They are also complete texts, not fragments.

 

Well, there's definitely no harm in your suggestion that contest admins remind entrants they can put their stories in the workshop after voting. I can't guarantee I'll always remember to say it but I'll try.

 

For those who want to post a piece in the Workshop and in a contest, perhaps submitting first to the workshop would be more constructive. I understand contestants wanting to know why they didn't win, but going into battle with a loaded rifle already tested on the firing range makes more sense than entering battle with an untested weapon. To me, anyway.

Just a thought.

 

This would defeat the whole purpose of the Anonymizer, wouldn't it?

Then you open the contest up to biased voting.

 

Yeah, I think the anonymity is really important. If authors want feedback before submitting to WF contests, they should seek it privately from people who aren't members of the forum.

Otherwise you'll start to get, "Well Poster X pissed me off in the debate room last week so I'm not voting for his story, even if I thought it was the best."

 

Yup, and vice versa. There have been a couple times when I knew who wrote a story (sequels and serials) and I knew they were really nice people and forum friends, which left me feeling weird about voting/not voting for them their stories.

Also, I think the contests are to show your individual best. If I post a story in the workshop, @Tenderiser gives me some great advice on how to untangle some problems with it, and it goes on to win the next contest, is it really my win?

 

In the past it was actually against contest rules to enter a story that had been previously posted on the forum. Presumably for the reasons mentioned above.

 

Which is pretty fair evidence the anonymity issue isn't one after all. Or shouldn't be since people really do know who's submitting what. Where anonymity is important, even one instance of it being compromised for any reason brings the entire program under suspicion. If you know one, do you really think others don't know the identity of other submissions? I'm pretty sure it really comes down to trusting the voters. A biased vote will always get through, but this seems to be a pretty honest group of people, so I doubt bias based on identity of the author is, or even could be, an issue.

I suppose you're right about seeking help to write a better story. Under that criteria maybe the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, won by Michener for his very first foray into the world of fiction with Tales of the South Pacific, should be rescinded or maybe Hemingway for Old Man and the Sea. Other sources of help should be banned, too - text books, internet, writer's blogs, MFA's in creative writing, etc. If we're going to stand on our own, then, by god, we should knock all the other feet off the stage. Thing is, though, editors suggest and writers decide to accept or reject the advice, so yeah, it would be your win on moral as well as technical grounds. Unless there's a rule against it, in which case all bets are off.

 

Yeah, and that bothers me actually. But it's hard to make a rule preventing stories being recognisable...

 

Yup, not saying that we should ban "recognizable" stories, but I do think that people writing sequels/series know that they're operating at a possible disadvantage.

 

The possibility for bias/"cheating" will probably always be there; even if we applied the strictest rules entrants could still PM their friends and ask them to vote for their story and we would be none the wiser (as long as votes are anonymous, at least). But given that our contests are more "for fun" than serious (e.g. with price pools), the incentive to actively cheat is not the best. For the most part I think it works to just leave it to the members to decide if they want to vote even if they know the author of a piece or two.