^edit- meant for kas I agree with what you said, just disagree with the part about most of us not having something insightful to offer. I believe all people are capable of sharing their unique experience of life in a way that is meaningful. It doesn't have to be an epic theme either, some of the most meaningful stories I've ever encountered were simple views on people and on life. I do understand what you mean about having a message forced down your throat though. No one wants to read a book who's characters and plot are nothing more than puppets in an obvious agenda.
I always thought that the best stories were the ones where the action entertains you at the front door, whilst the message sneaks in through a side window and sandbags you from behind.
Generally speaking, I agree. Again, I probably could have chosen better terms, but I'm too tired. lol. I'm working tomorrow night, and I need to stay up late/sleep late to adjust so I won't be falling asleep at the counter. I think the little tidbits we learn about life and people are best shared through relevant scenes in a larger tapestry. The reader can learn something from those scenes through observation, just as the author did in real life. This basically falls into writing what you know. You don't actually have to go out of your way to write lessons - they naturally fall into place where appropriate. They make your story more realistic and intriguing without actually being the story.
That's always been my general line of thought as well. A good writer would not try to sound preachy so that he/she could shove a message down your throat. IMHO, very good books have thier message subtly entwined within the overal action and chaos of the story. Very often the message is not intended to be right or wrong - it's purpose would be simply to get the reader to think a bit about whatever is particuarly important at the time. Y'know, like the evening news: "Twenty people died in an explosion this morning, due to....xxxxxxxxx. And, in other news tonight....."
Of course people want stories to simply be stories. And what's so unfortunate about having something to say, even if it isn't unique? Besides, a lot of the themes and morals that you claim will annoy the reader are unintentional, or occur naturally. I don't see how messages that aren't obvious are annoying. They aren't obvious, so how can they be annoying. Though I do feel the same way you do about talking in extremes. It is something that a lot of people around here do. It's all about balance, people!
The only thing subtle about sandbagging is that it's less likely to leave a visible bruise. An adept writer will use chloroform instead.
LOL. I suppose that's why in "Saving Private Ryan," the soldier who wanted to be a writer wasn't good at either.... until the end where he turned psycho... War movies are all about character development, of course...
Oh, I was just complaining about the intentional stuff. Incidental messages, those that "are unintentional, or occur naturally" are fine by me. I'm sure that every book I've ever read had those, and my own writing does/will inevitably include them as well.
Because sometimes you need a little bit of lighthearted fun in your life? I don't know about you, but I like to space it out - sometimes reading more light-weight, action packed books and sometimes deeper message-filled ones. It'd be boring only to stick to one all the time. And believe me, I am as much an advocate of good, deep literature as anyone. I don't know, my favorite stories are ones that do both at the same time. I love good action/horror/thriller stories, but a good message is always nice too, especially if it's one I can really relate to or take something away from. I think it takes talent to blend the two together well and I also really enjoy it as a stylistic taste.
There isn't anything wrong with intentional messages if they're done properly. A lot of stuff is done intentionally, but we still love it.
Yeah I totally get what you mean now. The best messages are the ones subtle enough for the reader to make them their own.
Yeah, really - like said before, just don't preach it, don't make it to where you're forcing it down the reader's throat.
Of course, it depends entirely on the skill/knowledge of the author. I suppose it also depends partly on the demographic you write for. Adults are more critical than young children, so if you presume to instruct adults, you really need to know what you're talking about. Simple messages tend to work better in children's books; it's almost like a parental supplement, and it's good stuff. If you write an adult novel with a voice of parental guidance, or as a figure on a soap box, as tbeverley put it, that probably won't fly so well. Yes, exactly. The clever writer will have you thinking it was all your idea.
It has nothing to do with demographic. No matter how old your audience is, it should still be done covertly. Kids will get it if you talk about the story correctly. Even if they don't get it right away, show them enough of the right stories, and they will learn what you want them to learn. We think kids understand a lot less than they do, but that is simply due to a lack of vocabulary, not cognitive ability. I've known 16-month olds who understood everything I said to them, but never formed real words. And some of that is simply due to physical development. Though until they turn ten or twelve, it does have to be concrete and simpler in some cases. But that does not mean you have to be any less covert.
That's also true, Rei. Covert operations all always ideal. I'll take their American dollars, replace it with Canadian, and they won't even know what happened until they try to buy something.
Ah, but you're thinking small change, my friend. (small change - get it? Ahaha..ha..ha....) I only deal with $20 bills, minimum.
