1. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    Suggestion: Can we have a "posting guidelines" sticky for Workshop?

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by CoyoteKing, Feb 2, 2022.

    Would it be possible to make a list of posting guidelines for the workshop?

    I think it might be helpful to give new posters some guidelines. General advice, like:
    • If you can, think about what you want help with and ask about it specifically. (Even if the writer is WRONG about what they need help with, I think it would help put them in the mindset that they are here for critique, and it might encourage them to think critically about their writing before they post it.)
    • Format your title as: "Title (wordcount) (optional description, like "buddy cop comedy" or "modern fairytale") so people have a better idea of what they're clicking on. (Example: "Romeo & Juliet, 1000 words, tragic romance.") Use it as an opportunity to try and entice a reader.
    • If you want a post a revised draft, add it as a new post in the original thread; change the title to make people aware there's a new draft in Post #7 (or whatever post it is); and strikethrough or gray out the original text so people don't accidentally critique the previous draft.
    • Make sure to "like" critiques to encourage critters to continue giving you crit in the future.
    • It's helpful to start off by posting no more than 1000-2000 words. Frequently, the first thing most new writers need to work on is their prose. Their grammar skills, their dialogue skills, their description. Cutting down on wordiness. You don't need a 4-5k excerpt for that, and frequently, long posts are going to get skimmed or overlooked-- especially if the prose is a slog to read.
    I already enjoy the Workshop, but I think if we cleaned it up a little, we might attract more critters over time and make the process more fun for everyone.
     
  2. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    It's a good idea but the problem is where do we put it ? theres 8 top level boards in the workshop - do we duplicate it eight times ?
     
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  3. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    I like what you're saying and I get it, but Moose's point is very valid here. With the structure as is in Xenforo 1, I don't really see how that would be possible.

    As a note of mention though, we do like critique examples and guidelines in the welcome message for all new members, which I believe comes to them automatically when they join. Those critique guidelines tell much of the same stuff and more, as they show forum rules and what quality critiques provide. However, some of the more personalized self-habits for posting stories may be a good page and link to attach to this welcome message.

    I'll look into it.
     
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  4. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    Oh, forgot to reply to this before.

    That’s a good point. Tbh I’m stumped.

    Gotcha!
     
  5. NWOPD

    NWOPD Administrator

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    It may be possible to implement a “universal sticky” in the workshop forums. I’ll look into it, may be an easy solution.
     
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  6. terricanada

    terricanada Banned

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    ===================================================================================================================
    Hear, hear! Excellent suggestions!

    Something I find difficult about being a contributor/critiquer is having to point out problems that should never have been left in the piece in the first place.
    I'm talking about glaringly-obvious problems such as poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation, and, things like using 'there' when it should be 'their'.

    I believe it is a privilege to be able to upload our work to this, or any, forum for feedback, and we have a responsibility to (at the very least) spellcheck and proofread before uploading a 2500-word piece.

    I, myself, find it difficult to give constructive feedback on things like the storyline, the writing style, voice, tone, tense, structure, POV, etc, when I can't get past poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

    In this forum, I've read excerpts of several fantastic stories, but in some instances, it was like wading through mud.
    And that kind of burden makes me wonder who the writer is writing for because it certainly does not appear to be for the reader.

    Many, many proofreading and editing apps exist that help writers "clean up" their writing.
    I think a very clear set of "Submission Guidelines" could be added to our forum.
     
  7. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    We all start somewhere. Some of it could in fact be due to laziness but some could be just not realizing the presence of such obvious errors in their work, which is something this forum can help with.
     
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  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    That's very unlikely to happen - this forum exists to provide help and advice to people of all writing levels and abilities, having a set of submission guidelines would be antiethical to that. It would also be confusing because the workshop is not for pieces that are ready for submission.

    on the wider point - there are very many pieces to chose from so if you don't want to critique a certain sort of piece, don't , and also its very easy to know what to say about a piece with a lot of grammatical errors.. you say 'this piece has many grammatical errors such as... and give a few representative examples

    I'd also note that as someone with 8 self published novels and over 100 non fiction magazine pieces SPAG is the last stage in the editing process for me (my editor agreed with that position) because their is no point in painstakingly spag editing a piece that you are going to alter... not least because big chunks may be removed, and new writing introduced which would have to be reedited for SPAG
     
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  9. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Now that there's only one top level forum for novels and short stories, perhaps the sticky could be implemented there?
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    It probably could - we'll discuss it en team, also find out where daniel was with the universal sticky
     
  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I don't edit until late in the process myself, unless I'm going to post something in the workshop. Then I'll edit that piece, out of respect to the people who will hopefully read it. I agree with @terricanada that if there are a lot of basic issues with spam it makes it hard to concentrate on higher-level things. It's also just a matter of putting your best foot forward. Clean it up as much as you can before posting, otherwise everybody will be pointing out the mistakes you already know are there or could have easily fixed.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
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  12. terricanada

    terricanada Banned

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    Exactly. Similarly, I don't edit until the 2nd draft, but when I'm going to impose upon a betta reader for a critique, I at least clean it up for them.
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Personally i just read past them - but each to his own. However the key point here goes back to what I was saying about being there for writers of every level... I've no problem with cleaning up a workshop piece to the best of your ability, but that's very different from us having a minimum standard of grammar for submission.

    the problem with the latter is that some writers aren't aware of grammar rules, or the differences between they're their there and so forth.. and are correspondingly unable to fix them in our work and require our constructive feedback in order to learn and grow... and its not a simple as saying "why don't they use grammarly"...I gave up using grammarly/autocrit/PWA and other similar programs because of their annoying tendency to false positives and suggestions which are just wrong...

    Its also important to remember that this is an international forum and somethings like for example whether to hyphen one hundred / one-hundred, or spellings like colour vs color vary with nationality even in the English speaking world
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
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  14. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I do too, but it takes a certain amount of mental energy to do that, which should be expended on the actual story itself.

    But then, the problem is sort of self-balancing. Meaning that if people don't fix spag issues then they'll mostly get comments about the spag. If they really want critique on the story itself or other things not spag-related, they should fix it to what level they can.
     
  15. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Personally, I find that unless the SPAG issues are overwhelming, I tend to ignore them when reading a piece of critique. I have read some where the SPAG is just too great to ignore. When you're mentally fixing something every sentence, it's too much work for my poor overtaxed brain.
     

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