Tags:
  1. Stormsong07

    Stormsong07 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    1,724
    Location:
    Texas

    Talk to me about geography- specifically fells and moors

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Stormsong07, Sep 9, 2018.

    Ok, so I'm fleshing out my map a bit more and there were a couple spots where I need to define the geography, as I'm about to move a rather large army through it.
    I'm thinking a fell would work. Wikipedia tells me "A fell (from Old Norse fell, fjall, "mountain"[1]) is a high and barren landscape feature, such as a mountain range or moor-covered hills. The term is most often employed in Fennoscandia, the Isle of Man, parts of Northern England, and Scotland."
    I'm hoping you Brits and Scots and whoever else knows about fells can help clueless American me. Can you tell me more about geography of a fell? Are the hills very high? Are they super rocky? Would it be feasible to move a large (medieval style) army through a fell? Would they be able to use the hills to conceal their movements, do you think?

    Similarly, I have a spot of land at the foot of my mountains that I need to classify. (No armies moving though here, though) Would it make sense for this area to be a moor? What is the difference between a fell and a moor?

    Edited to add: Using Google Maps to explore Dartmoor via street view and photo spheres. Is this a typical representation of a moor?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  2. SethLoki

    SethLoki Retired Autodidact Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Look up 'The Pennine Way' < but a few miles from me. And the Lake District (Wainwright's Walks). I'd say you'd get a feel for them, an immersive one, if you can clock any GoPro'd and Youtubed experiences.
     
    Stormsong07 likes this.
  3. Dracon

    Dracon Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    939
    Location:
    England
    I don't know Dartmoor very well, but look up the Yorkshire Moors too.

    The moors are hilly, most definitely not what I would call mountainous, maybe up to about 500m above sea level. Dense with heather and reed, and peaty soil that act. The heather gives it a wonderful purple appearance in the summer. You'll get some quite craggy spots although much of it is quite featureless, moors can be quite uneven terrain. Plenty of bramble and berries for forage. Water shouldn't be too difficult to come by.

    Weather: mild, very grey and overcast much of the time. Danger of mist in the mornings. Rain is common, annoying drizzle even more so.

    A large army - siege equipment, baggage train and all - would find it quite difficult to move through moorland. The terrain is uneven, and often thick with heather. When it rains - very often - the peaty soil, already soft, will turn into mush and transform the land into a bog. So wheeled carts, heavy machinery highly inadvisable, although smallers bands of infantry and horsemen might be able to cope.

    However, dry weather has the potential to be very dangerous, because the soil is peat, making moorland fires persistent and difficult to extinguish since they are actually still burning underground. Without the heather cover, there would pretty much be nothing and nowhere to hide: that may or may not be relevant to you.

    In terms of hiding an army - once you get onto the true moorland there's very little tree cover at all, which would make concealed movement difficult of large numbers difficult. However, some of the heather and reed is very dense and can grow well over a metre in height which could be good for hiding. This is juat me speculating, but I imagine trampling that would make for very easy tracking. There are plenty of valleys that cut through the moors though that can make hiding easier.
     
    rinnika and Stormsong07 like this.
  4. lonelystar

    lonelystar Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    62
    There is no simple answer for this as these vary too much.

    Some of the best examples of fells in England are the lake district. My understanding is that usually in height terms a small mountain (2000 - 3000 feet in height).
    Usually in these areas people would have to follow round the peak(s) using natural contours of the land or natural cut or valley. (Wynetts pass in Derbyshire is a good example of a natural cut.) Often it is too difficult or dangerous to go up and over. Potentially moving an army through mountain /hilly landscape could allow for surprise attack or appearance but remember that temperature, weather (snow, wind, mist, fog, rain, extreme heat) can cause illness, injuries or death. Time is another big thing to remember.

    In the UK there are several different moors each with their own characteristics and weather. - the full list is on here- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorland

    I would try to at least losely to base your story on a particular fell (or 2) and moor as this will help with specific details. Are you wanting a moor surrounded by mountains or exposed moor separate from the mountain area? Or are you thinking of a wide valley floor with peaks in the distance?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
    Stormsong07 likes this.
  5. Stormsong07

    Stormsong07 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    1,724
    Location:
    Texas
    Thank you all for the info. Just went on a lovely little walk through the English countryside thanks to Google Maps Streetview and @SethLoki 's suggestion of The Pennine Way. Beautiful, yet lonely. Will check out the other suggestions too.
     
  6. Dracon

    Dracon Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    939
    Location:
    England
    Saddleworth Moor in particular in the Pennines may be what you are looking for; if you are able to filter through all the articles on the Moors murders, that is...
     
    Stormsong07 likes this.
  7. severine

    severine Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    90
    Location:
    UK
    I'd recommend looking up the Peak District too. Though not technically called fells, the act of walking through the area is often called fell-walking. It varies, like all of nature. Climbing up them is generally fine for a single person or small group, assuming they know what they're doing. The rocks can be pretty loose etc. An army would be much better going around the higher parts, but then again Hannibal managed it (albeit in a different area), elephants and all.
     
    Stormsong07 likes this.
  8. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    2,641
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    I think we cant help much if we don't know how north this moor or fell area is and what kind of army we are talking about.

    North Finland = Lappi = Lapland is a large fell area. Finnish army does not have difficulties there. They walk and ski, they use these...



    In winter time they...



    Hiking videos might help you. Youtube and Finnish word tunturivaellus (fell hike) helps you a bit if you are interested in northern fell area. You can see many "how to" -things, landscapes... eating, sleeping, gear... This is early autumn.



    In this video there are some maps. So you can see same landscape in map and as a view. If you read texts from the map... Vaara means smaller fell. Tunturi means bigger fell.

    River water in fell area is so clean you can drink it. So you carry minimal amount of water and take more from the rivers.

    In winter time there is not much sun. In summer time there is not much dark.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    Stormsong07 likes this.
  9. rinnika

    rinnika Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    A fictional universe of my own imagining
    There's a lot of things to check out! Definitely use Google Maps/Google Earth to look at Dartmoor, Lake District, Scottish Highlands, Shetland Isles, Isle of Wight...

    The thing with this corner of the globe is that the weather can be brutal to the land. That's why everything is so rugged and messy, but it's kind of the point!
    The Isle of Wight is forever battered by prevailing winds, so it's not like you find an abundance of lush forestland. The central area of the island can be quite barren and uninviting. Quite dry in the summertime.
    Dartmoor is, as you would expect, an excellent example of a moor. A lot of people describe 'rolling hills' when talking about England or Scotland and Dartmoor gives you an idea of what they mean. It's hard to hike across because you are never really walking on flat ground - it's made up of inclines and declines. Weather is a factor here as well. The shrubbery is a lot of heather. Low lying, bristly, don't walk through here in shorts-type stuff. It's generally a combination of muted natural colours, but in the summertime, it can be gorgeous.
    :love:

    The Lake District loves water and patchy sunlight ('godrays'), the Isle of Wight can blow seawater straight into your eyes no matter how high up you are because the winds are rude like that, Dartmoor is very often overcast or misty, the Scottish Highlands is either stunning or will storm your face right off, the Shetland Isles are slightly friendlier but watch where you're walking. Sinkholes and big-ass potholes are just a thing. I expect they'd be found more often in the Scottish Highlands.

    My grandmother went pot-holing. Bear with me here - it's like my own personal hell so I never went. Sinkholes and potholes are both common and potentially dangerous in these areas so they are checked out and dealt with if they're unsafe. But if they are deemed fine, my grandmother (and a surprising amount of others) would take a rope and climb down said sinkhole or pothole and explore. Like cave-walking, but mossy, slippy, muddy, much wetter and for me, absolutely terrifying. :ohno:

    Generally speaking, these places are open and exposed. If it is summery and bright - great! If there's a storm coming in, I hope you aren't attached to your face. The winds can be just a minor inconvenience that blows your tea over or the hills and cliffs act as a wind tunnel.
    If it's particularly exposed, say closer to the coast, you'd see a lot of shingle and eroded rock.

    If you're thinking of something more chill or more stereotypically English, look at the Chilterns. You're less likely to be blown away or fall down a sinkhole there.
    As for moving a medieval army through there, it has been done but the weather is critical. The weather here changes so goddamn fast you have to be on the ball if you're out and exposed on the moors.

    Wet weather: I would be surprised if you didn't have some broken ankles, fractured arms etc (assuming they are relatively unfamiliar with the land, or at least some of them are). Falling down potholes/sinkholes is more likely if they are unfamiliar with the ground. Visibility usually decreased quite considerably because the rain tends to go sideways in the moors/hills. The rain will usually be either big freezing cold drops that feel more like being assaulted by a wet fish than rain, or ultra fine and go straight through whatever you are wearing and soak you. There will be squelching. Rivers and streams can be tricky to cross if everywhere is already mossy and wet. I have never encountered anything other than freezing cold water when I fall in! The rocks may be concealed and it is so easy to injure yourself.

    Storm: Honestly, take shelter. Be aware of the direction of the storm and you might be able to make some ground if you are sheltered by particularly mountainous areas. (Wales loves its mountains!) Quickmud is a thing too - like quicksand but muddier and wetter and much grosser. If you want them to have some good old-fashioned British bad luck, give them a storm and some quickmud! UK readers who grew up in rural areas would appreciate and probably find it at least a little funny.
    :pop:

    Dry weather: The best option. Sure, some people will still get injured by tripping over a rock nobody saw or slipping on wet rocks in the river, but it's easier to traverse. The weather isn't usually dry and mild for long. You'll still encounter potholes and sinkholes but you're more likely to be able to avoid them and save yourself from falling in. Obviously, Dartmoor shrubbery can conceal things since it's like a large bristly carpet, so be careful of that.

    Hot/Summer weather: Yay, sunlight and warmth! Wait no that's potentially worse if you're in army gear. :bigeek: There aren't really large areas of covered forest and most of the time, your army will be exposed to the sunlight without any sign of cover. Luckily, it is rarely a clear day so you'd get breaks with the sun goes behind the clouds. The ground underfoot would be drier and much easier to cross.

    So I imagine...
    Ideal conditions would be; overcast with sunny spells, dry ground (a spell of dry weather before the army traverse it would be best), low winds, some shelter
    Problematic but okay conditions; spells of rain (which would slow them down), misty atop hills, potholes, concealed rocks/slippery rocks, horizontal rain propelled by the wind
    As for the worst conditions; summer storm inbound, a previous spell of wet weather, quickmud, sinkholes/potholes, low-lying shrubbery, no shelter, fog/mist or high temperatures

    And I am so sorry for this being such a long post! As much as the British landscape and weather can beat you up, I do love its stormy rugged charm! :cheerleader:
     
    Stormsong07 likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice