The Diet and Exercise Thread

"Thus, the second priority of metabolism in starvation is to preserve protein, which is accomplished by shifting the fuel being used from glucose to fatty acids and ketone bodies" - Biochemistry, 5th ed. W.H. Freeman, 2002, New York.

Going into ketosis is literally tricking your body into a starvation state. Not entirely harmful and a lot of studies show it can even be really helpful and can even be used as a treatment for diabetes, but can still have serious consequences which is why it's important to speak with someone that actually knows what they're talking about.

 

Not quite. You're taking that quote out of context a little bit which leads me to believe you don't even understand what it's actually saying.

What that quote is saying is that when you're not eating anything, your body starts to metabolize fat to preserve your protein before it will burn the protein. In layman terms, your body burns three things for energy: Carbohydrates, Fat and Protein. Your body can not produce or even really store Protein and does not want to, under any circumstance, burn it for energy. Carbs will be burned first, which is why endurance athletes have large carb dinners before performance. Your body burns fat once it's out of glucose.

This is not 'starvation mode', this is 'dipping into stored energy mode'. It's possible to enter starvation if you're doing keto improperly (not meeting protein or fat goals), but you are not "fooling your body into thinking it's starving", this is a ridiculous statement. For the record, I have a bit of experience with dietitian-related studies, if you're so concerned with 'someone who actually knows what they're talking about'.

 

I'd be much more inclined to believe sources. Nothing against you personally, but you're a random person on the internet saying you are things and you know things and without actually knowing you better, it would be rather foolish for anyone to simply believe anything any of us are saying simply at face value in a matter that can seriously affect their health.

 

That's fine and completely understandable, but that doesn't mean that taking a quotation out of context (or twisting its context) is a good alternative. It's fine to use and study a source, but it's not okay to cherrypick what you think looks like a supporting point and then mis-use it.

 

It's a bad idea to act like an authority figure in this sort of thread, not just because it was explicitly prohibited by the mods, but because the subject of health and fitness is wildly debated and I think any pool of people you survey would agree based on their own experiences that there is no one size fits all solution.

 

Well, I apologize if I gave that impression. I really just wanted to see some dietician area studies/data related to what we were talking about, because while it is a debated study that does have a lot of different solutions, there are also a lot of research done that a lot of information given that can back up some of these solutions and hopefully destroy dangerous theories and misinformation.

 

Cool, I'll definitely be sure to keep this in mind! I think I'll stick with grass-fed where I can because I am conscious about GMO grains and pesticides.

Agreed. All of the research I've done says the same thing. That's not a shot at anybody else, but I'm just saying I'm convinced. The difference between fasting and starving is as big as... well, being hungry and starving lol. It's simply not the same thing, and if you're doing the diet right then you'll be burning the fat reserves and proteins.

Vitamin D has the potential to help with anxiety? Wow, never heard of that. I have mild anxiety and take CBD oil for it, which also helps me sleep. I've been dreaming almost on a regular basis now ever since I started using it.

Bulletproof coffee honestly sounds lit, although I'm always highly skeptical of these new brands. I'll have to do further research on that but thank-you for bringing it to my attention! I've become a big coffee drinker.

Regarding supplements, I also don't mind using them as an actual *supplement*. I feel like "supplement" has become a new-speak word for replacement, where people aren't getting their proper nutritional values and they try to take a short-cut. For me, I take Vitamin C supplements when I feel like a sickness is coming on. I might take other supplements if I feel like I have an extenuating, big day ahead of me, and need to do whatever I can to be on the top of my game. It's a 10% to add onto your 100% if that makes sense, and in moderation this can work fine (also assuming you don't take unhealthy amounts of a vitamin or something; some of that shit can kill you if you're beyond careless).

That sounds awesome to me. I've been reading about Socrates lately, as well as getting into the stoics, and I think I could really benefit from practicing a healthy diet that will get me off of those cravings and impulses. It takes discipline and that's something I really lack.

I realize it sounded like I meant extra-virgin olive oil in my coffee, which sounds kind of gross. I was reading about it online and many people put it on their salads and such. Won't hurt to give it a try.

Speaking of salads, what kind of greens do you eat? Celery with some salt / peanut-butter? Kale, asparagus, etc.?

Great! Makes sense. I wanted to know because I plan on hitting the gym once I get a new job and can afford it financially as well as fitting it into my schedule.

Sounds good to me, thank you Stegblob!

 

Wasn't referring to you. I was agreeing WITH you ;-)

 

Actually, you don't burn protein on keto. You're consuming protein for nutritional purposes. In fact, it's important to really follow your protein goals (if you don't follow anything else like I never do), because too much or too little protein while eating keto is one of the major 'bad things' you can do on the diet.

I meant she took vitamin D because she doesn't get out in the sun much (or as often as she would if she didn't have anxiety problems), but yeah, vitamin D can help with anxiety. I forget just how it does it (something about it increases your midi-chlorians or something), but my girlfriend was actually prescribed some mega-dose vitamin D pills by her doctor to help with her anxiety problems. Each pill was like 1000 times your normal daily dose or something like that. I took one and it made me feel pretty good, so I dunno.

Oh lol. Yeah, no, you can drizzle olive oil or extra virgin olive oil right over your salad. It's pretty good, actually. You can also use it along with vinegar to make a vinaigrette for salads.

We normally just eat a generic 'spring mix' salad mix we get from wal-mart. It's like baby lettuce, baby spinach, baby kale and radicchio. I cube up cheese and keep it on hand for salads, and we also always keep hardboiled eggs, along with homemade bacon bits (not the disgusting store bought kind). We normally eat salad with chicken.

Romaine lettuce is a great bread/wrap substitute for stuff like tuna salad and egg salad.

I am not the real Stegblob.

 

See, this is what happens when you're not in glucosis.

 

Man, I wish a diet could give me Force wielding capabilities.

 

It isn't self-evident to me that all groups of people from around the world (let's say we're talking B.C. times and before) had a diet as you describe. And if they did, certainly the carbohydrates they were consuming are not the same kinds we're consuming now.

I assume there are different kinds of carbohydrates, and some are healthier than others?

 

I know that sugar is a carbohydrate, I was merely separating the carbs such as pasta, rice, starchy veg, sugary foods etc from carbs we get from eating veg such as broccoli, etc.

Please also can you cite where we are evolved to metabolise carbs? I'm pretty sure that Palaeolithic man did not eat carbs.

I think the point is that there will always be arguments over what actually is good/bad for you.

It is really confusing there is so much conflicting information out there regarding food, no wonder we have these arguments. Even medical/health professionals disagree at what people should eat.

I think my advice and the most sensible advice I have heard through my years of personal research is.

If it don't grow in t'earth, or if it don't eat stuff grown in t'earth, don't eat it.

 

Every vitamin is toxic in high concentrations. You're almost probably not going to get vitamin D poisoning from over-the-counter supplements, so you're really just being ridiculous with that whole notion. Like, yeah, consulting a physician on any health-related change is a good idea and everything, but going around telling people they'll be at risk of overdosing on vitamin D is, well. Silly.

Edit: Also, by the way, I noticed you literally just Googled "vitamin d toxic" or whatever and you pulled information from the first result you got, which was an article on the Mayo Clinic website. But you actually only quoted the little search result blurb and didn't read the article. The full article found here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 explains that people suffering from vitamin D toxicity don't get it from diet or sunlight exposure, but from problems with the body regulating vitamin D.

And for the record, yes, my girlfriend was deficient in vitamin D (which is why she had them prescribed to her- considering how many people in all areas of the world have vitamin D deficiencies, I'd wager to guess you and 9 out of 10 people on this forum are also deficient of it), but yes, they were completely near that strength. They were meant to be taken twice weekly.

No, not exactly. Carbs and fats are our usual fuel, not just carbs. However, carbs are easy to get. Early humans ate grass and reeds for carbohydrates and the body adapted or evolved (depending on who you ask, I guess) to burning carbs before fat. This doesn't mean that fat stores are kept only for starvation periods, they are kept for periods where we don't eat. We've merely adapted to eating as often as we do, ask a nature survivalist who bare-minimum camps for weeks at a time how often they'll eat in the wild.

That's beside the point, though. You are not entering a 'starving survival' mode when you do keto or even when you fast, you're just turning your body onto using its secondary fuel source and its fat reserves. Starvation does not occur until fat is used up and the body is now burning protein into glucose (eating your skeletal muscles and then eventually your smooth and organ muscles). Your body doesn't think it's starving when it's using fat reserves, it thinks you're not eating carbohydrates. The body uses glucose as a fuel source, and carbohydrates, fatty acids and protein are all turned into glucose. It literally doesn't matter which one of the three you're using, the end result is glucose. The only problem with it burning protein is that your body is super, super, super bad at it (very poor conversion rate for protein to glucose) and, you know, we kind of use protein for our muscles.

Your body likes burning fat almost as much as carbs, but carbs are easier. For the record, those fat reserves in your body are stored glucose from both carbs and fat (stored as fat). Your body is burning glucose no matter what it's burning, but when you're not putting carbs into your body you're making your body burn stored fat off faster. It gets a lot more complicated than this, especially when it comes to the whole process of your body actually activating its fat receptors and stuff and my knowledge on the subject gets a little shaky there, but basically, the point I'm trying to make is you're not 'starving' because your body is using fat stores. You're starving when your body is eating its muscle tissue.

And here we have what is more or less kind of a fake argument. Yes, obviously medical experts will know more than normal people who are only self-studied to casual degrees, but if your argument is going to rely on "what's the point of exchanging thoughts, opinions and information if you're not an IRL expert?" then what's the point of discussing literally anything? You may as well never learn anything or talk about it if you consider it pointless if you're not an expert on it. A lot of information, coming directly from expert sources, is available for people to learn about and utilize when they're trying to make a decision, especially when it comes to a decision to even ask their doctor something. Most good doctors are very receptive to patients who begin with, "Hey doc, I was reading some journals and articles about keto and fasting..." and value patients who will attempt to do their own research. This is a little beside the point, but I'm just saying it's fine to research yourself. See what other people think, compare their thoughts and ultimately consult your doctor when it comes to more serious decisions like how long they think you should fast for, as your doctor is going to know more about your personal medical condition than a health blog does.

You can try and subvert any amount of information or discussion by pulling the "but r u a EXPERT?" card. Doesn't make it a very strong argument on its own, though.

 

I mean, if it's really necessary just put a disclaimer in the thread OP: Hey, take all advice in this thread with a grain of salt (or sugar, depending on what your doctor says you should do).

This is getting a little silly. I understand that this isn't The Debate Room but yet somebody brings up diet x, another person says "that information is wrong", and then they turn around and say "but anyway this isn't supposed to be a debate".

You can have it one way or the other and I really don't care which. But this discussion is sort of becoming a revolving door at this point, and the only thing more ridiculous might be when somebody says "we should only be listening to experts" after giving their own dietary advice / experience and sweeping the rug out from under themselves, and taking everybody down with them.

So like I said. Either people can potentially come here to post false dieting information (deliberately or otherwise) without being challenged because "no debating", or people should be allowed to balance out the scales and just discuss freely as long as it doesn't spiral into ad hominem.

I actually find it of great interest to see how everybody's experience differs. How different people have different goals, sometimes with the same diet and sometimes with different diets. Hearing how so-and-so achieved their goals, and congratulating them. Giving one another subjective advice on how they might achieve their goal next time if they've fallen short. If people can't handle a little disagreement then that's too bad. Nobody's pretending to be an authority figure on the matter by saying "I've done some research and have personal experience with this diet, and these are my results".

 

Whilst I agree with the above, I can't help but wonder whether this thread is adding any value to the forum. After all this is a writing forum, and unless you are planning to write a book on diet and fitness, I don't particularly see how this is relevant to the forum. There are plenty of diet and fitness forums on t'internet. Perhaps if constructive discussion can't be made on this topic it should be closed. But that's obviously not my place as I am not a mod.

However, I too am very interested in this topic, and like discussing this constructively.

 

Like any forum that has a 'primary subject' matter along with various areas for more off-topic things, this diet/exercise thread is just an off-topic place to talk about dieting and lifestyle food choices. Does it serve any real direct purpose to writing? Nah, but most online communities tend to naturally branch out into off-topic areas where people discuss all sorts of random crap.

 

Do you guys have favourite exercise mixes? Most of what I do now I can't listen to music during, but back when I used to run I had some GREAT mixes, with a blend of slow and fast songs so I'd vary my pace, and they really helped keep me going.

Favourite song for pepping you up/making you move?

Favourite song for slowing you down without letting you stop?

 

I think you're in the wrong thread, Bay

ETA: Never mind, didn't see the "exercise mixes" part, my bad

And to answer your question, I basically just listen to anything that's fast paced while I run. I have a running playlist that I just put on shuffle.

 

I'm half inertia-challenged, and slow is my natural state, so I don't need a song for that. Too cold and snowy here now to run outside, but I saw some dude on Facebook the other day dancing on a treadmill to that Bruno Mars song, Uptown Funk, which is a good one, so I've been trying it (R.I.P. Earp soon, I'm sure), but my favorite 'pepping me up' tune is Rubber Band Man by the Spinners (Hey, ya'll, prepare yourself ...).

 

In my 20s about 10 years a go I used to go through a phase of listening to happy hardcore whilst I ran. Unfortunately I wasn't fit enough to keep to the beat!

Of course my other ones used to be rocky them sound track. i.e. "gonna fly now", "Eye of the tiger" and "Final countdown" But now I don't really listen to anything. I find wearing earphones irritating whilst running. In fact I find running irritating so I don't do it . Perhaps that's part of my problem!

 

+1. Carbohydrates are to plants as proteins are to animals. It's slightly more complex I'm making it sound, but if you've eaten a plant, you've eaten carbohydrates.