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  1. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Giving up genre...

    Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by deadrats, Mar 6, 2019.

    I've given a few genres a try, and I just don't think it's for me. I don't seem to be able to write true genre stories. I don't know why this is so hard for me, but it is. I think I'm just going to stick to literary works for now. Just wondering how some of you found your genres or how you found it was time to give up on others.
     
  2. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    At the center for me is science fiction. I think my general quest for more knowledge, and my endeavor to work at NASA, drove me farther along this road. I fell into the genre with 1950s and 1960s science fiction, and through modern gaming turned novels (everyone has a guilty pleasure in novels, mine is Halo). I always felt so limited by living on just this world, that I wanted to live through stories of other far off lands. I've travelled and worked around the world, and it's really getting small.

    I personally love writing in specific genres at the core of the work (especially science fiction), but I like to entangle bits of other genres into the mix. I feel that if your restricted so much as to stay completely in a single genre, that the story has a good chance of suffering.

    I've somewhat stuffed myself in science fiction for a long while now though, and I think I would like to give mystery or horror an honest try. Maybe even romance. But I'm sure elements of each will bleed through one another in minor ways.
     
  3. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Mine is fantasy. I love stories that transport me far away from the mundane, and immerse me in a world that is fundamentally different from my own. I like reading about a world where everything is nobler and more important. I like myth and legends. World building is all important. That's why Tolkien is the greatest, particularly the Silmarillion. Basically, I'm into escapism, I guess. Theoretically, epic fantasy should be my thing, but a lot of the stuff that I've read doesn't engage my emotions the way it should. I think this is because it doesn't first establish a world that I find absolutely emotionally believable, and because of this, it can't quite convince me that it would be gut wrenchingly horrible for it to collapse in the titanic struggle between good and evil that occurs. Honestly, historical military fiction, or historical fiction dealing with catastrophes and war, often meets these criteria more than actual fantasy; I suppose, because there's an absolutely believable world already in place. Stephen Pressfield's historical novels of Ancient Greece are fantastic, and Rosemary Sutcliff, whether or not she's a children's author, does this better than anyone I've read so far.
     
  4. Hollowly

    Hollowly Member

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    You don't have to write genre fiction, or write in any one particular genre, you can always combine several. Is there any particular reason you wanted to write genre fiction? I know for me and I think with most other people, they picked their genres because that's what they enjoyed reading the most. I think you should just write the story you want to and if at the end it happens to have slid in to some genre then great, or if it only has some slight genre touches that's fine too and there's nothing wrong with good old general fiction. Also, you don't necessarily have to give up on genre fiction forever. You may find down the road when you come back to it that you can then pull it off. I would also suggest reading more in any genre you want to try if you don't already read it. That can help you get a feel for how to write the genre.

    That's really cool. I'm curious, have you managed to make it to NASA yet?
     
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  5. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    Still a long ways from it, but I'm on a natural progression course towards it with the job I have now. Electron microscopy is an equivalent to some of the same sorts of science, and is my field at the present. I'll get there eventually.
     
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  6. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    Screw genre. Half my favorite authors wander around through sci-fi, horror, fantasy, realistic fiction, surrealistic noir, action, drama, satire, you name it. They jump from one to another with no warning or toss elements together as they please, and never look back. Look at Stephen King, Kurt Vonnegut, Margaret Atwood, Chuck Palahniuk and Christopher Moore (all in my top ten.) Some are known for one genre or another, but they don't stick to it. I know you have more experience with publishers than I do, and marketability certainly counts, but if you want my opinion? Write what you want and then peddle it where it belongs.
     
  7. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    A lot of people write because they love a particular genre. Without that kind of love, I don't know why anyone would decide to write a genre novel. The limitations of genre are part of the attraction.

    I can think of books that dance on the line of genre without clearly becoming one kind of fiction or another. So you don't have to commit.
     
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  8. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I don't like being held to expectations which is why I hesitate to call anything I write genre. It's not that genre has rules per say but the fans and readers have built-in expectations for their genres and I don't want to get boxed in. I prefer to use genre in a literary/general fiction way but not be held by it.
    It's like Nabokov - Lolita is part confessional genre, film noir genre, mystery genre but it's so far above genre that you could never classify it as such. Kathe Koja has written horrors but they're so far above the usual horror genre horror fans might be disappointed by their lack of gore or like I was blown away. But somehow she's too good to be categorized as simply a horror author. That's more what I'm attempting when I write - a style that readers can attach to rather than a specific genre and hopefully they'll follow when the stories aren't what they're usually interested in.
    I don't actually follow writers that genre hop. When William J Johnstone left horror I didn't follow ditto - Patricia Wallace. But if there's a writer whose style I love putting something out that I may not be immediately drawn to I'll still check it out - because their style has become a unique genre in and of itself.
     
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  9. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I was inspired to try genre because a lot of other writers on this site do. And who doesn't want to fit in? Alas, it is the beauty of mundane where my heart and pen want to go. I have immersed myself in the literary world. It's tough, but those stories are where I do best. And it is my literary works that get published. I might dabble a bit, but I know my strengths and genre is not one of them. It's okay. I do like to try new things, but my heart and mind belong to literary fiction. I'm curious. Do you genre writers ever try literary fiction? I feel like it can also be a form or path to escapism. Just about all writing can be.
     
  10. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    A while ago, when I said "screw genre," I'm sure you knew I meant genre in the old sense. Somehow I missed that you meant "genre," the umbrella term for all fiction set in a speculative reality. I stand by the advice, whatever it's worth, to write what you like to write, but as someone who explains the term "genre films" to my dad several times a year, it made me feel silly.

    Anyway, in answer to your new query, I personally didn't choose genre. It's just what I love, and the ideas that pop into my head usually involve a surreal or other world aspect at their core. I have other projects in the works though that are absolutely literary fiction though. I plan to get much better and more confident before I tackle those, because they scare me. In fact, the first non-genre book on the TBW slate, is tentatively scheduled for a few years down the road, and judging by the paragraphs I have written, it will likely be a transitional piece filled with Palahniuk/Tarantino inspired stylization that I'm more comfortable with apparently than John Irving or Jodi Picoult. I don't know how to make human drama compelling on it's own, but I hope to learn, because the next novel after that is extremely personal and even semi-autobiographical. I don't want to eff that one up.
     
  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm confused. Can you clarify? For example, I regard murder mysteries and romance as "genre", but I wouldn't say that they're set in a speculative reality.
     
  12. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    In older terminology, murder mystery is a genre (n), and romance is a genre (n), and anything that fits squarely into a genre is genre (adj) fiction, but outside the world of literature (and increasingly within) "genre" as an adjective usually refers to sci-fi, fantasy, etc., basically anything that can't or at least doesn't exist. As a rule, if it's represented at Comic-Con, it's probably "genre." I don't think you'd call it a rule, but it's dominant trend in terminology.

    Old terminology (and still used, but mostly in literature): genre fiction vs. general fiction
    New terminology (because nerds have taken over the world): genre vs. anything remotely plausible in reality

    So when I said "screw genre," what I meant was "don't worry about categorization." I realized how that might sound though and I guess muddied it up even more trying to clarify, which is something I do. :)
     
  13. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    Agreed. I'll let the marketing people at my publisher worry about it, if I get that lucky.
     
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  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Ah, OK, thanks. I hadn't heard the newer terminology.

    @deadrats , I'm not clear on which one you're using?
     
  15. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    I'm guessing the former. I forget that definition, because I have tons of conversations in the real world about movies and comics. I'm not sure if my friends have read books. :read2:
     
  16. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    That sounds like "speculative fiction" rather than genre. Mysteries are real enough.
     
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  17. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    Yeah, I know what speculative fiction is. "Genre," and obviously I'm talking more Urban Dictionary than Wikipedia here, includes horror and a few others that aren't necessarily speculative fiction. Sometimes it's surreal noir, extreme gore, over-the-top action, things like that, but not always SF.
    https://www.vulture.com/2018/08/21-genre-films-recommended-by-hollywoods-nerdiest-directors.html
    In film, this is absolutely the dominant modern definition, but I see it more and more in literature.
     
  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    OMG. You're a fan of Rosemary Sutcliff! So am I. I only recently discovered her writing, but I am amazed at what she was able to create. She created characters who were realistic for their time, and also managed to create the world they lived in (often the post-Roman era in Britain) very convincingly.

    She made a few writerly mistakes—the main one being the role of improbable coincidence in her stories—but considering the fact that she was horrendously crippled (a form of rheumatoid arthritis called Still's Disease) from a very young age and was utterly dependent on others to care for her—she struggled, sometimes, to even hold a pen—I find her talent amazing. How she was able to describe the settings and the effect of weather and climate on her characters so vividly is beyond me. So much for 'write about what you know,' eh?

    I think her own life experiences made her resistant to the obligatory 'happy ending,' and her experiences with people made her aware that nobody is ever perfect, and that cruel disappointment is part of life. These things find a place in her stories which lifts them above ordinary 'escapist' historically-based fiction. I think she was an amazing person as well as a writer. She led a rather sad life, but she pushed it as far as she could, and found fulfillment in her inner world.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  19. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I tried some SF and F type stories. I guess it was worth a shot. Just couldn't pull it off so well.
     
  20. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    Where would you rate those in your reading preferences?

    ETA: Do you have any favorite authors or sub-genres?
     
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  21. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I don't really understand the question. It's true I would most of the time prefer to read literary works, but I'm not chained to them.
     
  22. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    I don't know how to better explain it. Do you love sci-fi and fantasy? Could you take it or leave it? Do you have a preference between the two? Do you have favorites?
     
  23. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    I don't want to get into a big definitions thing, but horror is considered to be speculative fiction, and the vulture article about genre contains a number of movies that are very realistic - like all the feel bad movies. I don't think you are using the term the way anyone else is.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_fiction
     
  24. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    @Rzero -- I said that I DO prefer to read literary works, but I also like to expose myself to what else is out there. Still, after several attempts at writing genre, it's not something I am going to continue with. At least for now I'm putting it aside. So, could I take it or leave it? I guess the answer is leave it. :(

    Just curious if other people who try a new genre or no genre (whatever is new to them) find it hard to really switch gears? I feel like I gave this a few months. I still continued with other things, but I did write several genre short stories. They were all rejected, but one of them did get some attention. I've since sent that genre story to some non-genre publications, wondering if the story straddles the line enough. And I do have a few literary stories that have traces of genre in them. I'm not sure if that is just going to pretty much kill my chances everywhere. Anyway, I think I've spent enough time "trying something new." I've got plenty to do when it comes to what I'm so-called good at.

    Also, I think I said this already, but being part of the community here has inspired or tempted me to play around with different genres. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's good to know firsthand what it's like to play around with different types of stories. And since most people on here write genre, I wanted to write a little genre, too. But I was never trying to make genre my main thing. I still love zombie stories. I would say those are my favorite genre which can be SF or fantasy or horror, depending on the approach. And I imagine that's probably something I will come back to when I need a break from other things. I've got my hands pretty full right now, but if anyone wants to trade zombie stories in the future, hit me up.

    Now, back to my latest short story that is so "real world" I'm writing it with chalk on the sidewalk outside my house. ;)
     
  25. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    I think, but could certainly be wrong, that writing is such a motivational struggle for most people that they are largely going to latch on to a genre or two (including general fiction) and stick with them, rather than play around with genres they don't really care about. Successful authors may decide to change things up and write something outside their comfort zone, but they have a track record that makes dabbling in other areas comfortable. In my mind, writing a fantasy story when you have no particular interest in fantasy is almost perversion - why put yourself through the hell of trying to care enough about the oddball conventions of different genres enough to get them right?

    I am a "genre" guy - I particularly love SF and will also tend to read other genre stuff. But I am aware that I am applying an extra level of suspension of disbelief when I read or write SF because that's what required to service my otaku fetish. Without that deeply ingrained need to see spaceships and other SF crap brought to life, I would probably find the whole genre questionable - as many non-SF readers do.
     

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