The Private Lives of Orcs

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Nidhogg, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Not important to the point ;)
     
  2. John Kirk

    John Kirk New Member

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    I'm kind of a mythology/folklore nut myself. I'd recommend researching the folklore roots of all your races to to draw ideas from. Tolkienesque and D&Desque orcs/goblins/trolls/ogres have been done to death. So, ironically, if you based them on ancient beliefs, they would probably be viewed as far more original.
     
  3. TyrannusRex

    TyrannusRex Active Member

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    Well... :meh:
    The trolls in question, perhaps, but you'd have to ask Nidhogg.
    As for Tolkien's trolls, they aren't typically shown as being very emotional (or humanlike, for that matter) and although they could probably kidnap and screw whatever they wanted, a human probably isn't physically capable of... you get the idea.
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rdQ0dlm26wg/UOwX94PhQrI/AAAAAAAAAio/GFb3iN1BhMo/s640/P1020479mod.jpg?gl=GB
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/03/48/8f/03488f65db0088a2cbac6a9cb3a11b72.jpg

    But then, that does make me question how halftrolls occur.
     
  4. Nidhogg

    Nidhogg Member

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    To be fair, part of what I'm aiming for with this world & story is to focus on the aspects of these creatures that we as a society are used to, then delve into why they are like that. So taking ideas from Tolkien and D&D is pretty much needed.

    I did look into the original versions of these creatures, and to be honest whilst they may come across as more originall they'd probably not be that interesting for the setting. To summarise what I'd be working with:
    Orc: not much beyond the word itself, so very open to interpretation
    Goblin: ugly tricksters
    Troll: pretty much just non-Christian humanoids that live away from modern society. Much of the other lore was added later on in history.
    Ogre: a large humanoid (or in some cases, just a large human) that eats people.

    Out of those four, the only one that may appeal is the ogre, as it'd be interesting to see what would make a group of cannibals side with the resident Dark Lord, as well as how these cannibals are treated by each other and the other races.
     
  5. John Kirk

    John Kirk New Member

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    Oh, okay. If you're creating some kind of statement on modern societal/pop culture portrayals of these races, the way you're approaching it is totally valid.

    I've done extensive research on the folklore and mythology of the European / Mediterranean areas, and I can tell you that there's a lot more concerning these "races" than what you're describing here. If your goals don't include incorporating the original folklore, I have no argument with that. But, since you say that you looked into the original folklore, I assume that it was a possibility at one time. It may be that your own research was too narrowly focused on these specific terms to be fruitful. The tales of most creatures of folklore were spread across different geographical regions with different cultures and languages. As such, different names were given to creatures having similar (though not exact) forms and characteristics. If you're interested, here are some alternate names that might help you in your research:

    Orc: Orco, Orcus, Orculli, Norc, Norrgens, Fenoderee, Phynnodderee, Glastyn, Jimmy Squarefoot
    Goblin: Bogle, Kabolos, Kobold, Koboldge, Redcap, Tylwyth Teg, Bendith Y Mamau
    Troll: Huldra, Mound Folk, Thusser, Skogsra, Lundjungfrur, Trow, Sith
    Ogre: Yggr (the term has English/Nordic origins - its etymology is fascinating. But, that's kinda off-topic)
     
  6. TyrannusRex

    TyrannusRex Active Member

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    Here's a good video discussing the origins of orcs (and elves) and how we know them today:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Bmp-AgKVo
     
  7. Anhaga

    Anhaga New Member

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    As a regular practice, perhaps. As an ideal, it's been around much longer or chivalric romance wouldn't be a thing.

    These are all great ideas, but Nidhogg, one question I have for you is: what sort of audience response are you going for? Do you want readers to be sympathetic? To find them funny? To find them intriguing but alien? The response you're aiming for needs to have some effect on what decisions you make about lifestyle and culture, since there are some things that will push readers out of suspension of disbelief. For instance, figuring out why they and how they came to support the Dark Lord, given that they are intelligent, is important.

    Are you familiar with Warcraft's Orcs at all? They could prove an interesting resource if you're looking for a sympathetic depiction, though the sympathetic/player-character Orcs have broken away from the evil influences.
     
  8. Nidhogg

    Nidhogg Member

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    Whilst I'm not familiar with all of the names you listed, I am familiar and have looked into quite a few of them. My descriptions were meant primarily as layman summaries of the consistent traits found in a majority of those groups. I may do some more research into the variations of them when I have a bit more time on my hands, so thank you for the suggestions!

    Thank you!

    I think I'm currently looking at getting a response of the 'intriguing but alien' variety; I want to be able to understand how and why they do things so that readers can say "ok, I get why they are doing the thing, even if it's not something that I would personally do."

    My current reasoning for why they support the dark lord, for example, is that these races (primarily the orcs) were enslaved by the dark lord in their infancy, and over many generations they have basically been put into a degree of Stokholm Syndrome that makes them believe the dark lord is their patron and borderline god; they follow him for the same reason humans may follow ruthless dictators and tyrants: safety, purpose, charisma, the freedom to abuse others, cool uniforms, rallying behind someone that says the hairless rodents of the south are the cause of all your problems etc. With the orcs having a natural predisposition towards hierarchy and the goblins having a strong need for communities, the community and lifestyle provided by the dark lord is very appealing.
     

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