1. Published on Amazon? If you have a book, e-book, or audiobook available on Amazon.com, we'll promote it on WritingForums.org for free. Simply add your book to our Member Publications section. Add your book here or read the full announcement.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
  1. DeadMoon

    DeadMoon Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    449
    Location:
    fargo, ND

    The truth

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by DeadMoon, May 3, 2016.

    I'm not sure if this is the right thread or not to post this but here it is anyhow. This is one of those random questions that pop into my mind now and again.

    If you could know that absolute truth about any one event in history what would it be?

    It could be about area 52
    What happened to Amelia Earhart
    JFK
    9/11
    ect...

    Off the top of my head I think I would like to know about a final days of Gengus khan and where he is buried. He might have been a warlord type ruler but he also did not tax the poor and helped his people to learn to write and read.
     
    jannert likes this.
  2. Miller0700

    Miller0700 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    393
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Whether a god or gods exist.
     
  3. Kate Sen

    Kate Sen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    My college professor ingrained in me the knowledge that in history there is no Truth with a capital T. The victors write the history books. Two perspectives of same event can both be right even when contradicting each other. The history of the Civil War as taught to kids in public schools in the South. The history as written in Eastern European textbooks during the Cold War. History of wars by veterans and by conscientious objectors. History as changed by popular historical novels or one's own faulty memory, influenced by future events.
     
  4. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,532
    Likes Received:
    2,336
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    yeah, but that's because of historical record. The question specifically talks about the actual truth, as if you could witness it or something, and have all the relevant data. Of course there's still a judgement of analysis, but you get to make one entirely of your own rather than about the biases of your source that are then filtered into your own biases.
     
    matwoolf likes this.
  5. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,532
    Likes Received:
    2,336
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    I don't particularly care about a lot of those popular mysteries. There actually not that important the bits that are missing. They're not really the most interesting thing. Especially Amelia Earheart. She crashed but they never found her. Big woop. It's unlikely to be that interesting. \Very probably just a more or less regular crash. People die without being found all the time, it doesn't mean anything weird is happening. And for the record, 9/11 is not really a mystery. 9/11 truthers are just riding an endorphine train. Some poor derelicts from Afghanistan or somewhere were talked into killing themselves to go to heaven because they didn't know any better. And because they were pissed off at things America did they don't want to talk about. No secret. I could go on and on. :rant::rant:
    No, what really interests me most is usually people. Stalin, Hitler, Bismarck, Frederick the Great. There's a lot of fascinating people I would really love to understand better. And imagine the people we haven't hear about. The randos who might be highly intriguing who never quite made it into history or whose records were lost or destroyed. But also some events and contexts as well of course. Frankly I can't answer this question. I love history too much to be able to choose.
     
  6. Mckk

    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    5,014
    Likes Received:
    2,747
    What happened to that Malaysian plane that just disappeared.

    And since I'm a Christian, it would be awesome to be with the disciples at the time when the risen Christ appeared to them after his death :ghost: :coffee:
     
  7. yeybez

    yeybez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    In my happy place
    sorry to rain on your totaly un-nuanced and un-informed conclusion without evidence. but if you are to dismiss the 9/11 debate you must explain the following things:
    1. why did building 7 (WTC7) collapse without any plane hitting it. the official story is that a fire started on two floors but this would not cause the support structures to all simultaneously collapse. such a unique event wouldn't you say? never before has a fire randomly starting on two floors ever caused a skyscaper to callopse yet the WTC 7 was completely OMITTED in the 9/11 report. they did not investigate this building despite it apparently having had no reason at all to have fallen. but I'm betting you never even heard of that one in your incredibly in depth research right?

    2. why did the plane that crashed into the pentagon disintagrate? that is litteraly impossible. a plane does not entirely disintigrate into nothing based on a hydrocarbon fire. absolutely absurd.

    3. why have the leading investigators of the 9/11 comission report come out and said there was deliberate incompetance amoungst the team and that the investigation was not carried out in a full, conclusive or professional manner? I guess its just easy to point fingers at the boogie man and then bomb them right?

    4. you want to talk motives? how about the fact that leading politicians at the time of 9/11 had a year previous been part of a conservative think tank "Project for the New American Century" in which they outlined in their manifesto that in order to acheive their goals they would require a "new pearl harbour" style incident. and lo and behold how did Mr Bush describe the events in interviews following the tragedy? I'll leave you to make an educated guess on that one. oh and the fact that right before the events Larry Silverstein took out a huge insurance boost on the structures and received a pay out of $4.55 billion the largest payout in history. lucky hunch?

    5. the NORAD air defence response times in military exercises conducted a year previous in the year 2000 found that they could respond to any arial threat in roughly 2 minutes. yet on the day of september 11th 2001 it took them roughly an hour and a half to respond to the hijackings. oops, right? must have been a women pilot, amIright?

    but no that's fine, don't bother ever looking into an event. why would anyone do that when you can simply buy into the government line on the issue. why would the government lie to its citizens. its not like they need to win their approval for the most dispicable acts in history: war. they wouldnt want you to think the whole thing was just to switch oil sales back to the dollar would they?

    educate yourself.

    oh, and as for the original question of the thread. I don't really know what truth I would want. JFK or something I suppose
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
    Tea@3, Oscar Leigh and DeadMoon like this.
  8. 123456789

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,981
    Likes Received:
    3,630
    What really happened to the Lounge...
     
  9. yeybez

    yeybez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    In my happy place
    #TheLoungeWasAnInsideJob
     
    halisme, BruceA and Oscar Leigh like this.
  10. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,532
    Likes Received:
    2,336
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    Okay, so I'm not saying there's no questions. But I don't believe it was a conspiracy. I will not debate this matter, because it is inappropriate for this thread.
    And please don't make insulting comments about how people haven't done their research. And I will not do it either, because my initial comment was a little too far I admit. There we go. Can we have a peaceful resolution please?
     
    jannert, SethLoki and IlaridaArch like this.
  11. Mocheo Timo

    Mocheo Timo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    World of Bob
    If we're alone in the universe...
    Ancient-Aliens.jpg
     
  12. IlaridaArch

    IlaridaArch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    166
    May I remind you that just like everything that comes from human lips, is subject to be a mere opinion and scientifically, these opinions =/= facts. For example, investigators were under a huge pressure. Bottom line is, they failed. Is it surprise that they accuse some other members of their team to be incompetent? I think not. And as ex-military, no army is perfect. What NORAD claimed in 2000 is just *bs* ego-boosting. That doesn't even apply to this date like certain tests have proved. Modern armies middle in politics, and it's important to make yourself look as strong and huge as possible. Because essentially that is what keeps the violence out.

    I'm not really interested in "truths" when it comes to historical events. But I would go to Rome, to the days when it collapsed. Just to see how a city almost size of a million citizens, changes so fast into population of 40 000. What happens, what people do etc.
     
    Tea@3 and Oscar Leigh like this.
  13. yeybez

    yeybez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    In my happy place
    well I think I was fairly justified in applying a critical tone to your post considering you threw the first slur at my position when claiming I was "just riding the endorphine train" I made absolutely certain I did not insult your character I insulted your research because if you believed I was just "riding an endorpine train" I felt you had not yet delved significantly into the issue as you were unable to represent my arguments in an accurate way. however, I will appologise for the general tone of my post I honestly didnt intend to come off so mean, I appologise for that.

    well I think the fact they completely failed to mention an entire building collapse in the report we can say their incompetance was past the level of tolerance. if you are comissioned by the government to investigate a tragedy of such a scale it is your absolute duty to dot every I and cross every T and many were willfuly omitting such huge events as the building 7 collapse? unacceptable. would you apply the same attitude to a murder investigation? if a government team was investigating a serial killer and they omitted one of the murders in the charges at court would we say "oh well they were under a lot of pressure." no we wouldn't. they are expected to work to a certain standard and instead of working towards finding a conclusion they worked around making the evidence fit a pre-determined conclusion. and let us not forget they initialy werent even going to investigate the crime untill wives of the dead campaigned them into a corner and forced them to throw together the commision to shut them up. so many holes in the investigation, just read it for yourself.

    also NORAD did npot just claim those times for "ego boosting". it would have been ilegal for them to do so. you can read up more on the NORAD incidents by googling "NORAD exercises 9/11"

    also I find it quite hypocritical that I'm under fire for criticising someone's research but it's apparently okay for this guy to reduce my entire argument to "rant about 9/11"


    last post, I promise. cheers
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  14. Gawler

    Gawler Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    148
    Location:
    Australia via Hawaii via Australia via England
    Where Noah actually parked his ark.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  15. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    20,459
    Likes Received:
    12,120
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    :stop:

    Until the Debate Room is active again, this thread WILL NOT disintegrate into an argumentative thread debating theories of contentious events.
     
    Tea@3, jannert and Oscar Leigh like this.
  16. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    520
    The problem with all this is that mostly the truth about anything really doesn't change a lot. It'd be nice to be able to say I told you so to a few people but even if I have absolute iron clad proof about the JFK assassination, say, what does that change? Sure, people believe me. The world knows the truth. So what? It's a long time ago. JFK isn't coming back. Even something like 9/11 at this point has already had it's big effects. Nothing will change that now. You can't pull Sadam out of the ground.

    So I second the notion that we find out if there is a god and/or if there is any other life in the universe.

    I think some grand objective truth that there are no gods would do us a good chunk of good as a species. And on the off chance there is a god, well, at least we'd know which one and that's at least a good leg up. My bet is on God-Emperor of Mankind.

    Failing that; whether we are alone or not knowing one way or the other would be a great comfort. If we are all there is then we need to get our act together. If we aren't then we can begin trying to make contact.
     
  17. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,532
    Likes Received:
    2,336
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    Seconded. I would really like to know if I'm going to hell. So I can then be sure to direct my complaints to the man upstairs.
     
  18. SethLoki

    SethLoki Unemployed Autodidact Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    719
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    It was once posited that if a being was/were intelligent and wise enough to know all truths.

    It would switch itself off.
     
  19. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    20,459
    Likes Received:
    12,120
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Now there's a truth. ;)
     
  20. Mocheo Timo

    Mocheo Timo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    World of Bob
    Makes sense. This brings it back to Plato's cave analogy.
    Once you know the truth, people would never believe you because doing so would mean they gave up on their lies.
     
  21. NiallRoach

    NiallRoach Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    357
    Location:
    The middle of the UK
    The lottery numbers for next week.
    God, 9/11? I couldn't find a fuck to give with a microscope and a few billion years to look as it stands.
     
    Oscar Leigh and Mocheo Timo like this.
  22. AASmith

    AASmith Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    119
    ONE? so hard. I have a few.
    What does the US government or UN know about aliens?
    What really happened to The Boy in the Box?
    Who died on The Walking Dead?
     
  23. Aaron Smith

    Aaron Smith Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    460
    I have no clue what this has to do with General Writing.
     
    Tea@3 and Oscar Leigh like this.
  24. Wayjor Frippery

    Wayjor Frippery Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    721
    Location:
    Tranquility Base
    I would like to know the absolute truth about what makes a bestseller. There, @Aaron Smith, now it's about writing.


    ;)
     
    Oscar Leigh, SethLoki and Kate Sen like this.
  25. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,428
    Likes Received:
    1,622
    Location:
    [unspecified]
    For instance...

    There was never a time in human history, until the advent of The Flat Earth Society, that humans believed the world to be flat. The only reason we believe today that earlier societies thought this is because of so-called histories written by Washington Irving, John William Draper and Andrew Dickson White.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.

Share This Page