I don't think I follow. I think we're talking about scary/gruesome books, but you seem to be talking about actual thrills that people go on, like skydiving for instance.
I like reading scary books as long as they are not full of gore and such. My imagination is too vivid for that. But I can handle the more psychological thrillers and that sort. Why do I read them? I suppose partly because I can feel the emotions of those in danger or in a difficult situation in the book, while I'm safe and sound sitting on my couch/chair/floor/bed/wherever I'm reading. I have no desire to go out and try to get myself into those situations at all. It's something different that I'm not likely to experience myself, which is fine and dandy to me.
I like reading scary books occasionally, mostly because if done well it can add a lot of tension, which is something a lot of people enjoy in their books. As for gruesome, many fantasy/sci-fi books include scenes that could be considered gruesome. I think writers often use gruesome scenes to shock the readers and to show just how savage and serious that book is becoming. Take GRRM for instance, his books are full of gruesome scenes but they are often considered some of the most compelling in modern fantasy. People just like to read stories that interest them, and if that includes things like terrifying monsters and horrible wars, that great. Other people like to read romance stories. To each their own. Also, on the whole thrill seekers things, which really has nothing to do with the types of books people read, I'd just like to say that not everyone who goes skydiving is a 'thrill seeker' or subconsciously wants to risk their lives. Many are just people who do it for the feeling of freedom that you can't replicate here on the ground, or because their friends convinced them, or because they'd like to do something daring to cut through the monotonous durdgery of everyday life.
#1 Horror is a direct link to a part of our brains and our past needed for survival. Being scared does release endorphine, pumps adrinaline and speeds up the heart beat. This happens so that we can out maneveur a maneater, or pull a loved one from harms way. Without it we are impotent cowards. With it we feel alive and verile. To tickle that part of the spyche is not only enjoyable but healthy. I pitty anyone who has never been in a fist fight. #2 Death, To gaze long into the void. If we can safely examine a thing as dark and finite as dying safely we can learn a lot about our own motivation and the driving force for mankind. If we can get attached to a character and see him die we can feel a real emotion. That's what art is. Looking into the dark side that we mostly try and ignore is not only refreshing it's enlightening, uplifting even. #3 Some very good literature is considered horror. Not the least of which were Anne Rice's, Mary Shelly, H. P. Lovecraft, Brom Stroker, and Stephen King. I have learned more about stringing along the tension of a plot from the likes of these people than I ever would from Mark Twain (he got the goods on pacing though).
funny you say that because you just have to look at men's past and present history like the nazis for example of other prolific dictators and you can picture out an idea of what the dark side of some men (mankind would be unjust because it is only a smal minority that is/was evil)is about.
why would I? is another way of looking at it. I would say one man's 'weird/twisted thoughts could well be another man's costly detriment and I am not prepare to 'indulge'/take the risk in taking part/sharing in case I discover one day it is something much bigger then I had imagined. They do say ingnorance is bliss. I like to keep my mind and my imagination as I got given it, free from other's people's stress/melange and negative/distorted vibes. I chose to spent my times doing other more exciting and fruitful rewarding stuff like creating soemthing of my own. I have more fun and that way I remain true to me and original. you don't know that. I know many whose lives have been traumatised from reading gruesome stories from an early age. I am talking'very early age' here..although I also know of other grown up who were affected one way or another by what they have seen heard or read.
Mankind has a dark side, and by glossing over it and saying it's just a minority, you're in denial. That's okay, but I prefer to keep my eyes open. I can tell you what I see, but since you consider ignorance to be bliss, as you point out in your next post, and because you want to shield your pure soul from the negative detritus of mankind, perhaps you should skip the next paragraph. When I talk about the dark side, I'm not just talking about wartime atrocities or plowing an airplane in a high-rise under the guise of religion. I'm talking about poisoning the neighbour's dog for shitting in your yard, sexually abusing your ten-year old niece, spreading gossip in the office to ostracize a competitor for an attractive leadership position, drowning unwanted kittens in the river, stalking a former lover, beating up a homosexual because you're afraid of the feelings inside you, torturing animals, setting fire to your shop for the insurance, shooting a drug dealer because you cannot make the evidence stick, conning people out of their savings with a pyramid scheme, selling deathtrap second hand cars, not telling your workers that they're removing asbestos because you don't want to pay for protective measures, disavowing responsibility for poisoning the river with mercury and heavy metals from your factory, cutting people off on the motorway and causing accidents because you cannot assert yourself against your tyrannical boss, and on and on. But if you want to disavow knowledge of what goes on in the world and prefer to live on believing that only a minority has a dark side and that by staying positive you somehow avoid contact with them, go on and eat the lotus flower. Just don't criticize anyone who doesn't.
that is my belief and I am happy with it. I do not want to shield anyhting I am just telling it as it is. these are facts of a life that has gone wrong. yes people are weak and misguided and hurtful to others, that is something we all know and are aware of but the more people get away with things the more mischievious they become and the more neglectful and harsh they learn to be. I also think that these things go one because societies are becoming more and more reclused, removed and remote from reality and themselves. Lots of soceities have no sense of identity, no sense of family bonds, no time to stop and think, not human contacts and no sense of other cultures and travels. Computers and technology is what we are left with, they are what we go by day in day out, and so made us become prisoners of our own lives the way we think and see things has become a thing of the media to play with and manipulate. I could not disavowe what goes on next door let alone in the world even if I wanted to. How could I? everywhere I look/see/hear even when I am on the move/outside I am bombarded by the media and life in general of what goes on. so to bringus back to topic in order for me to regain some sanity and escape the incessant maliciousness of what the media has set up to give/feed us on a daily basis I am very particular about what I read. Reading is MY time and that is one thing the media or the neighbour next door is NOT going to force feed me.
If you're happy with it, why are you trying to validate your belief by questioning ours? Oh, your belief is fact-based? Where are the facts? Nope. They're indications that people have a dark, cruel side. By saying 'gone wrong', you're validating the actions as being an involuntary consequence, instead of a voluntary decisions based on negative emotions. However, you're not interested in a discussion. If it suits you, you compare reading horror with extreme sports, but if I compare reading horror as doing research into the dark side of mankind, you parry that nobody should force you to change your reading habits. Nobody has. You wonder about the reasons behind reading horror, but you're not interested in reading why people read horror, you just want to hop up on a pedestal to announce to the world why YOU don't read horror and at the same time denounce anyone who does read horror to be freaks who are morbidly interested in the baser side of man.
Cacian - people do have a dark side. The reason scary stories are relevant is because they explore that in a safe way. To use an example from Shakespeare (I'm studying for an essay and that's all I can think of - sorry) Macbeth, Othello, and Hamlet are among the most popular largely because they are tragedies. Macbeth we see the act of Regicide, and decent into madness. In Othello we see a good man in Othello being corrupted by Iago, and jealousy which results in him (Othello) killing his wife. And Hamlet - do I need to go there? The whole play is a bitter supernatural revenge.
Exactly. Every single human being has a capacity for evil. Now, am I going to be a complete monster? No. The worst I'd get is likely a racist asshole who uses my disabilities as an excuse to justify my treating people like crap. That's probably as low as I can get (But I won't, you have my promise.) Others? They may not have any qualms for doing worse things than what I could do. That's why human beings are so terrifying. You don't have to be a maniacal dictator to do evil. Anyone could. All it takes is the right combination of bad events to drive a once gentle person into the brink of madness. That's why there are storis that examins the fall of a hero. So many bad things happen to the hero that he/she just goes, "I quit. They want me to be a bad guy, I will!" Everyone has the capacity for the 'dark' feelings. Revenge, hatred, jealousy. Sometimes to the point where one could justify horrible things like, "I'm doing xyz to this person because once upon a time, this person did xyz to me and/or my loved ones. They are animals, they are lower than me. I get to do whatever I wish to them." Hell, one of my stories explore that very notion! A man wishes to avenge his mother, but the culprit had long since passed. Still driven by an eagerness for revenge, he goes after the next best thing. The culprit's own child who's now a young man with a family of his own. Now, I would never wish something like this to ever happen in real life to anyone (both the reason for revenge and the revenge itself), yet I would read about it in a fictional story because it allows me to see how far down that road people can go with some assurance that the book is fictional.
It is not questioning, it is something I noticed and it bothered me hence me asking. It is not in me to seek horror/gory stories and movies and I was curious to know why so many do. I am beginning to understand it better because of this thread but it does not mean I get it entirely. well let's put it this way I have lived long enough and I travelled and lived in different cultures and learned diferent languages and customs along the way. I have more or less an idea of what my beliefs are. I speak as I see it. Everyone does. this is suggesting that we are born with it which is totally wrong as you know. I have no dark sides in me because I have not committed anyhting dark this is how I know. actually this was not my idea. Somebody brought it up first and I picked up on it. Check again if you like. I am not parrying anything. I am trying to explain that my interest do not fall within the horror category. I also like tobe in control of what I feed my mind so I won't venture out into where I am not wanted . I don't have to follow suit if I do not want to. In the meantime I am not stopping you or other to do as you please. I put the thread up for a reason. I discuss things the way others do. I am voicing my opinions. I cannot agree with you but I am telling you why I am not. You are free to voice your similarly. indeed not. I am afraid these are not my words. I read with particular interest what members had to say and I am getting the hang of it, but at the same time I can only say what I know.
I agree that they do but similarly people do have a logical softer intellingent side too. It is 50/50. Now it is up to you to find a balance between the two if you wish to be a successful happy person/ I am doing my bit..by not reading gory/gruesome stories. I keep myself busy with other more uplifiting enlightening things and avoid depressive stuff. How else do you balcance and find a healthy side/happy medium between the two. fair enough but that is yoru choice. There is enough tragedies in real life and they tend to be samy. There is nothing new to them . For this reason I am not interested in delving into them with too much focus. I prefer successful stotrie because there is always something new to them, something you learn justin case it happens to you. This how I address my life and thoughts. Tragedies is always about dying that is something everyone goes through so what is death teaching?? Life si more because it is never what you think is going to be. Life is full of suprises.
The fact that they are acted should be a clue. Because a Tragedy like Othello isn't real, but is put to stage (or screen) should have an effect on the audience. You don't need to look too closely to see exactly how Iago was able to corrupt Othello so easily, and that is a life lesson. Scary, or dark stories don't have to be gory. And in fact some of the best aren't.
You lost me with this. You think for a second you've never held any anger toward someone? Never secretly wished you could take a brick to that person's head? Never felt unjustly wronged? Never felt jealousy? We are born with this. You have it, I have it, Lemex has it, every single man, woman, and child on this little blue planet are born with this. From the poorest child in Indonesia to the richest men and women like Stephen King and JK Rowling. You think for a second they've never felt angry at someone? Some of Rowling's characters are based off of people in real life who had troubled her as she was growing up (Pansy Parkins, for instance, is based off of a snobby school girl who used to bully Rowling.) Yes, you're right, they haven't killed anyone. That's important. They have morals. They realize that even though they may get angry with people, hurting them is not the correct thing to do. We all have the ability to hurt others. What's important is that we realize that it's wrong and don't do it, even though we're secretly envisioning taking the aforesaid brick to that person's head. But don't think, not even for a second, that we were born without this. We are. When the child is growing up, it's the parents' job to make sure the child understands that while it's okay to be angry and upset, it's not okay to resort to violence. This lesson is usually taught early on.
Ok.What effects do you think watching someone trick/deceive/corrupt or kill someone is going to have on people? remember there are alwasy too side to anyhting. what is your definition of dark? how do you tell a best from a none when they are all dark?
These are emotions slightely tenser then the normal ones but they don't mean they are dark. These emotions are provoked and no I have never felt like ''taking a brick to that person's head''. you are going to have to prove that we all have ..ange is normal the difference we do not all engage in violence or destruction or dark thoughts just because we feel angry. It is called control. Exercising control and understanding the anger situation can solve and dissipate the issues. some resort to violence but lots resort to other means, less harsher/darker. a child is more likely to hurt himself then others because a child does not understand danger.That is different. a child at first does not engage maliciously in hurting someone else. They simply do not understand the difference between hitting a stone and hitting someone else and hurting themselves in the meantime. A child coies everything. If a child sees the mother/father/sister/TV hitting/shouting/throwing/screaming..the child will do exactly the same. Fact.
Because it's a life-lesson. I'm not going to reduce Othello to a simple 'Don't be naive' but that is an aspect of the plays massage. It's about capturing all sides of the human experience, and that's what Literature does. As Link said: Everyone has the capacity for evil. If you honestly don't then you are an exceptionally rare flower. Topics and stories that deal with horror, darkness, and evil in some form or another. I don't understand the question so I'll say this: some of the best horror stories are those which don't rely on excessive gore and jump out scares, but are more focused on a psychological journey. House of Leaves is an example, as is Misery by Stephen King, and in the game world Silent Hill 2 is a story I will never lose respect for. Returning to the world of Drama, Oedipus Rex by Sophocles is maybe my favorite play, and explores an extremely dark theme but also has an extremely potent story and message. If you haven't read it I urge anyone too, especially the Robert Fagles translation.
so what you are saying is that all human experiences is eventually evolve around tragedies/deceptions/lies/murder/fighting/jalouesy? maybe, but everyone has intelligence, a positive force/drive that should tell you that evil is not something clever. If you chose to ignore your intelligence and go in life thinking that we all have the capacity to be evil then that is something you have and not mine. I chose to say instead we all have the capacity to understand right from wrong hence intelligence. It is up to you to draw the line. Relying on something negative as being a fact is not something I take to. I prefer the othe way round, I think there is more to us then meet the eye, and evil is not one of them. That is my choice and I am satisfied with it. I am on a journey yes, psychological I am not sure, because whilst on a journey, I am not on my own, left to my own devices, I have others around me to consider and think about. That means I have to be fairly together and logical if I want to have the company of the people around me. By being a positive thinker I should draw more people around me, friends and families, important things in life that makes us humans and happy. If however, I engage my thoughts into believing that tragedies and evil is what humans are capable of, then I might as well drive my close people away, negative vibes, and end up living an empty life without any contact. I do not wish that for myself and my close people around and therefore I am better off behaving in a positive manner. potent usually means dangerous. how could that be a message?
Cacian, assume that perfectly normal, healthy individuals see an appeal in this genre for benign reasons. It works for them. It excites, enlightens, uplifts, and generally entertains them for a reason. Through the darkest black we can see the smallest spark of the good of humanity like a blazing beacon. So when the zombies roam free, we really do see the worst and best of mankind in the survivors. This is also a venue for discussing the basest level of human nature. Survival. There was once a world in which we all lived where ever day was terrifying. Huddled in our grottoes or around our campfires we told tales of the 'Strong Ones' from every generation that faced and drove back the dark things in the forest that wanted to drag our sick and young away. 'Story' was born from the conflict of man vs. the beast. That archtype persists in all form from our own inner demons to a possesed dog trapping us in a car, to satan himself. Without horror mankind would be something completely different, a less noble thing. It deserves your respect, if not your subscription. oh and a more accurat definition of potent is effective.
That is it thank you ClusterChuck. What is this reason? I am after it if you see what I mean. Hold on. We have already survived right? we have been here how many thousands of years? or are you saying we need more. I understood that we have moved on from cave men,evolution( Darwin) and managed to go to the moon and back. Cluster thank you for such great explanation...I must be from a different generation or zone. Let me explain no offense intended. This sounds all cosy but where was I then? That was not me. I had it all safe and sound and no terryfying stories ever entered my world. That is something I never thought of and so what does that make me? I am not aware of 'inner demons' and 'being possessed' I have to say. I would not go looking for it either. the sad thing is that what you are saying is true but not entirely true. Mankind has known wars and hatred ever since time started on this earth and is still ongoing. Wether that has its own merits is not debatable. Horror never makes anyone proud or worthy off. What horror means is death/distruction and disrespect for the environment and species. Don't forget that whilst we engage in conducting ourselves in a horrid manner and fight our demons as you say we are also affecting and killing what is around us species and nature alike. I find the whole idea quite desolate and says a lot about some humans.
