Thoughts with Orlando, FL

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Steerpike, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    I really wish the media would for once do the decent thing and talk about the victims, and how they lived their lives as they wanted.
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    They're starting to...

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/gay-nightclub-massacre-these-are-the-victims.html?via=desktop&source=facebook

    To be fair, I think the media should worry about the privacy and wishes of the victims' families, while they don't have to show that kind of respect to the murderer. So it probably takes a bit longer to put information together.
     
  3. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    I've seen some images of text messages from the victims to various people during the attack. Heartbreaking stuff. :(
     
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  4. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    I don't think they should talk about them individually at this point, because yes, privacy for the families is important (plus, what if someone wasn't out?), but they should talk more about them collectively like @Acanthophis suggested, with reverence to their courage to live their lives as they pleased in the face of adversity, and less about the terrorist.
     
  5. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Oh god. Imagine finding out your son or daughter was gay, because they turned out to be a victim here. That's even more tragic. :(

    That line of thought makes me want to out myself.
     
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  6. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    For me it would be absolutely heartbreaking to live the rest of my life wondering why they hadn't told me yet, and feeling like I never got to know my child on such an important level.
     
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  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Just gutted. Each of the victims will have people like @Wreybies and his husband grieving for personal loss as well as the general upset. That's a whole lot of grieving people.
     
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  8. Raven484

    Raven484 Contributor Contributor

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    There were many heroes that night that should also be in our thoughts. Families and passerby's that stopped to help get victims and injured people out. There was a lot of footage of people being hand carried to the hospital five blocks away. Pick-up trucks stopping to load up victims for transfer. That community should be acknowledged for there courage among a tragic situation that was unfolding that night. Also the people who volunteered to give blood or there time at the hospital, and the police who tried their best in a terrible situation. God bless them all. And all of our prayers are with the families and friends of the victims.
     
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  9. ChaosReigns

    ChaosReigns Ov The Left Hand Path Supporter Contributor

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    @Wreybies I'm so sorry to hear your friend José did not make it :( Know that you have all our supports here on the forum, should you need it.
     
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  10. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Such a sad situation, my thoughts are with everyone involved. I'll hold my comments for a later time.
     
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  11. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    @Wreybies Here is a thing from Anderson Cooper on CNN that mentions several of the victims names and talks a bit about them. I think they mention your friend's name, was he a make-up artist? I think they say his boyfriend died in the shooting too.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/anderson-cooper-reads-orlando-shooting-victims-names/index.html?sr=twCNN061416anderson-cooper-reads-orlando-shooting-victims-names1259AMVODtopVideo&linkId=25509548
     
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  12. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor

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    Kind of. This was an attack from one cultural viewpoint against another. A shooter pledging allegiance to IS isn't part of the same culture that legalizes gay marriage.
     
  13. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    It's not a popular opinion, but I agree with you. All things must be considered, it does no good to ignore any aspect - not gun laws, not the culture we've created, not terrorist motivation -- no aspects should be ignored.
     
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  14. hawls

    hawls Active Member

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    I struggle to fully comprehend a tragedy this horrific and this senseless. My thought are with family and friends of the victims and everyone caught up in the nightmare. I hope they find strength in themselves and in each other.
     
  15. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    I don't know what to say right now :(
     
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  16. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor

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    I'm never going to understand the desire to harm others. From a random hit in anger to something like this, and beyond.
     
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  17. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Cultures are not that black and white. A significant portion of the western world still has it out for the LGBT community. When you've got governors of states saying "you reap what you sow" towards the victims, that sends the message that homophobia and transphobia are fine and dandy. When you've got legislation being passed that prevents transgendered people using the bathroom of the gender they identify with, it's fine and dandy. When you allow a man to legally purchase a firearm with more ease than a pack of cigarettes, it's fine and dandy.

    Yes, this attack came from a man who pledged himself to ISIS. That same man was born and raised in America, purchased a firearm in America, and had a mental health illness (BPD) which could have been treated if the American healthcare system was somewhat not shit.

    The victims were killed by American culture as much as Islamic fundamentalist culture.

    ---

    I think we should make a new thread if we want to discuss non-victim aspects of this tragedy.
     
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  18. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor

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    I'm not going to debate that here, for the record, even though I'd like to make a rebuttal.
     
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  19. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    This is the kind of thing where I think it's very important to use your imagination. If we don't really connect with the tragedy, our sympathy and empathy is rather forced, out of the expectation that we feel sorry. So right now I'm imagining knowing these people, and thinking about death itself. Needless to say, it's not pleasant. So sorry. :(:(:(
     
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  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    To tell the truth, I feel worse about this now than I did when it happened. Then it was just shock. Now it feels more personal, since I've seen pictures of the people who died there. The more I think about it, the sadder I get. For so many reasons. This world feels like it's getting out of control. Maybe it always was, and I just didn't see it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  21. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Sad truth, there never was any control. We make control, and like all our creations it is transient and does not appear everywhere. Sometimes the world just goes on the way it always does, we create laws and moral principles, but nature says we will always differ, and sometime that means those who hate deeply.
     
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  22. joeh1234

    joeh1234 Active Member

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    So when this came on the news the other night, I instantly thought that is someone who is in the closet about their own orientation. Today I read an article from his ex-wife saying he was in fact gay. I do wonder if she is just making a quick buck though.
    That aside, it is horrible that things like this happen and I feel extremely sorry for the families and friends affected.
     
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  23. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Insecurity about one's own sexuality is a good way to make people's opposition to LGBT people more potent and emotional. Even in cases where the person isn't gay. It's why people are often most opposed to the ones that are their own gender. All those priest going on and on about guys doing butt stuff.
    And yeah, it is very sad and disappointing.
     
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  24. joeh1234

    joeh1234 Active Member

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    It is stupid though isn't it. Its the same as people who are racist, I remember seeing a picture of a white toddler and a black toddler and the quote was no one is born racist and its true, no one is born bigoted but through cultural brainwashing they become bigots. I know its a laboured point and its obvious to semi-intelligent people.
    I myself have 2 kids both girls, and my friend was asking me the other month what would I do if they grew up to be gay. And I asked him was that a serious question. He assured me it was not in a homophobic way just out of curiosity. SO I said and I believe all people should be like (naïve I know). But if I raise them both and they are happy, if they don't have great jobs but can support themselves, and they are respectful and thoughtful then nothing else really matters.
     
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  25. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Yes. I didn't know his boyfriend. My connection to José Luis was through the yearly Zumba convention in Orlando that William and I go to in August. We always met up and had a night out.
     
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