1. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Thundercats are loose

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Pinkymcfiddle, May 13, 2017.

    As a long time fan of the cartoon series, Thundercats, I have often considered writing a novel loosely based on the very rich environment of the cartoons. The cartoon had very compelling and well-realised characters: -

    Liono- was more of a cub, having inherited his sword and position in a strongly nepotistic society that rewarded contacts over talent.

    Panthro was firmly in the closet, and it seems the Thundercat society would not allow him to "come out" and express his love for Tygra, which was always one of the more depressing aspects of the show.

    Cheetara was one of the few females and given little responsibility other than running fast when the situation required it, but did not require Liono's magic sword and undeserved privilege, or Panthro's Battletank.

    Snarf was the underclass who was put upon by his humanoid masters, and was, for all intents and purposes, in bondage.

    This was a dystopian society that Mumm-Ra, the ever living, was attempting to over throw. Mumm-Ra's vision of New Thundara was based upon individual ability and equality without recourse to family heirlooms and titles.

    I think this is a very interesting premise for a novel. I do not want to resort to fan-fiction, so I am considering altering the names and circumstances, such as "Lionel", "Panda", "Cheeky", "Mummy" etc. But I want to explore the moral and societal dilemmas that are raised in this cartoon, in some detail.

    Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    As a fanfic author myself, you'd need to change a lot more than that. You could always look up "filing off the serial numbers" - clearly, it worked for 50 Shades of Grey - but are you sure you wouldn't be more artistically satisfied by doing a good fanfiction for other fans to enjoy?

    If you are dead-set on publishing professionally, then the best trick I know for turning plagiarism into inspiration is to look at what you don't like about the original work. That way, you know right off the bat how your inspired-story is going to be different: don't do that. When starting with the similarities and then trying to come up with differences doesn't work, start by trying to come up with differences instead.

    If you can't find something to dislike about the original, then try harder ;) It's not perfect, and finding flaws to fix in your favorite works will help you find flaws in your own work to fix.
     
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  3. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Simple, the bad guys are clearly the good guys if our society were not so perverse. And here is my moment of genius, the cats are all dogs: Labrador-o, Chihuahua-a, Whippet-ara.

    EDIT: What Fanfic do you write?
     
  4. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    I have a 4-part Doctor Who story and a Frozen epic of an unknown number of parts in my head, but I have only put words to the page for the first Doctor Who installment. I started writing it when I thought I was going to be a mathematician with a writing hobby, but now that I know that I'm going to be a writer with a math hobby, I have promised myself that I will start writing fanfiction again when I have my first two original novels published (by which time I'll have gotten some good headway into writing the third one).

    The best part is, I'll have a lot more ideas and writing experience by then :) That's the single most important rule that I've ever come up with – and being a self-proclaimed Chaotic Neutral, I don't hold to rules lightly – save ideas for later instead of trying to get everything out now.
    • I spent years working on an Urban Fantasy world (that accidentally came out of trying to "file the serial numbers" off of my unwritten Frozen fanfiction) with characters and gimmicks that I absolutely loved, but could not come up with any stories about
    • I spent months working on a bank robbery scene with even more characters that I loved, but that I again couldn't flesh out into an entire story
    Realizing in "my moment of genius" that my bank robbery scene took place in my Urban Fantasy world
    [​IMG]
    Seriously, there are no other smiley-faces big enough for when that idea came crashing into my brain!
    gave me a story about my Villain Protagonists discovering magic for the first time :supergrin:

    And my story has not stopped evolving since ;)
     
  5. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Honest question, honestly posed... do you not consider fan fiction... beneath you?
     
  6. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Which version of the Hephaestus myth is your favorite in terms of how he got crippled? The one where Zeus threw him from Olympus as a baby for being born ugly? The one where Herathrew him as a baby for that reason? The one where she threw him as a child for siding with Zeus in an argument? The one where Zeus threw him as a child for siding with Hera?

    Thousands of years ago, storytellers were expected to tell their audiences new stories about familiar characters. The Odessey is a fanfiction. The Iliad is a fanfiction. The Aeneid is a fanfiction of the Odessey and the Iliad. Julius Caesar wrote Hercules fanfiction in his youth.

    No, I do not consider Homer, Virgil, and Julius Caesar to be beneath me :cool:
     
  7. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    haha, take those sun glasses back off, We no longer live in an age of oral tradition or very limited circulation. The comparison smacks of false equivalence.
     
  8. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Contributor Contributor

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    How is it ok, when someone does it to a story, but if you did it to a gun it could land you in hot water?

    @Pinkymcfiddle while I am not big on Fan-fic (present company excluded), I don't see how
    you couldn't pull and E L Fudge and just tweek things here and there so it doesn't look like
    the exact same story. TBH I am not too familiar with the rules of what can and can't be
    done in Fan-fic.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  9. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    ... Because it's just a metaphor. Gun laws are different from intellectual property laws.
     
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  10. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    *Wrey skims the resultant story until he comes to the slashy part and settles in* :ohno: :-D

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Oh look, it's the requisite fanfiction shamer! I'm surprised it took this long. :dry:

    I don't consider fanfiction beneath me. I wrote 32 stories over 3 years (some novella length, one novel length), and I would not be a published author today without those stories, or the amazingly supportive community whose continuous feedback built my confidence as a writer. There were readers who told me that my stories got them through some rough times in their personal lives, made them cry or laugh, or were inspired to create fanart based on things that I wrote. I'm not at all ashamed of my fanfiction days - in fact, I thanked that fandom on the dedication page of my first original novel when it was published. My former works are still out there, and I get notifications from AO3 and Fanfiction.net on at least a weekly basis that people are still reading them and leaving kudos, reviews, favorites, etc.

    My second book, From Blood to Roses, which was accepted for publication and will be released later this year was originally a novella-length fanfic I wrote back in 2012. It's definitely gone through more than a "filing off the serial numbers" editing process; about half of it has been completely re-written, in fact. But the bones of the story and a lot of the characterization remains the same. I'm finishing up the second set of edits from my publisher this weekend, and I'm really happy with it, as are they.

    Honest question, honestly posed... what have you accomplished as a writer that makes you so much better than someone who writes fanfiction instead of or in addition to original fiction?
     
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  12. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Why is the word "shaming" thrown around to censor all opinions people disagree with these days?
     
  13. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    You don't consider fanfiction is beneath me to be shaming?

    Intriguing, go on?
     
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  14. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    I think you need to look up the definition of censorship. Why the word "censorship" is thrown around every time someone questions another person's opinion is what I'd like to know.

    How are the words "beneath you" in any way not suggestive of shaming someone?
     
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  15. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Why do arguments resort to semantics when they hit a wall?
     
  16. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Quite possibly so the person can avoid answering the question posed? I'll ask it again: Honest question, honestly posed... what have you accomplished as a writer that makes you so much better than someone who writes fanfiction instead of or in addition to original fiction?
     
  17. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    I've covered this topic in my blog: https://www.writingforums.org/entry/horror-a-study-on-cliver-barker-part-12-new-murders-in-the-rue-morgue.63830/

    But many famous and MAJOR literary achievements have been, in essence, fanfics. To give a few examples,

    Virgil's the Aeneid is a 'fanfic' of Homer's The Illiad.
    The Divine Comedy is a 'fanfic' of Virgil's The Aeneid.

    What makes these works compelling is while the authors based a lot of their elements off their hero, they still took the time to come up with compelling characters, and an ORIGINAL story.

    Note: I'd like to note I call these Spiritual sequels, as I don't much care for the word fanfic.
     
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  18. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    I believe the current term is transformative work, as used by the non-profit group The Organization for Transformative Works.
     
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  19. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    If you insist on an answer, I'll tell you what I haven't done: I haven't stolen someone's intellectual property and infringed their copyright.
     
  20. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Neither have I ;)

    Stealing somebody's intellectual property and/or infringing on their copyright would entail either 1) claiming that the work was original, rather than derivative, and/or 2) trying to make money off of the derivative work without permission of the owner of the original.

    My Doctor Who fanfic opens with a disclaimer that I claim neither profit nor credit for the world that my story takes place in.

     
  21. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    You have a poor understanding of copyright law. It is not a prerequisite to profit from it, and the disclaimer may as well be written on toilet paper for all its legal validity.
     
  22. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    From the aforementioned Organization For Transformative works:

    In the United States, copyright is limited by the fair use doctrine. The legal case of Campbell v. Acuff-Rose held that transformative uses receive special consideration in fair use analysis. For those interested in reading in-depth legal analysis, more information can be found on the Fanlore Legal Analysis page.

    http://www.transformativeworks.org/faq/

    ETA: From that ruling: Although such transformative use is not absolutely necessary for a finding of fair use, Sony, supra, at 455, n. 40, [n.11] the goal of copyright, to promote science and the arts, is generally furthered by the creation of transformative works. Such works thus lie at the heart of the fair use doctrine's guarantee of breathing space within the confines of copyright, see, e. g., Sony, supra, at 478-480 (Blackmun, J., dissenting), and the more transformative the new work, the less will be the significance of other factors, like commercialism, that may weigh against a finding of fair use.
     
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  23. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    Fair use is not a right, it is a defence used against copyright infringement in specific circumstances. People often misunderstand this. Until your specific work is tested in court, you cannot claim fair use. Until that time you are relying on the goodwill of the copyright holder.
     
  24. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    If Ryan Murphy wants to sue me somewhere down the line, I'll be sure to use it in my defense then.
     
  25. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    Thank you Laurin.

    See people, you can learn something new every day.
     
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