To prologue or not to prologue

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by ParanormalWriter, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. Cheeno

    Cheeno Member

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    Up to now, I haven't found a need for them. Doesn't mean I won't in the future, if I feel the work merits one. I like them when they work well, setting me, as the reader, up for what's to come. With my novels, I use a concluding chapter which could be construed as an epilogue, though I don't employ the term.
     
  2. TwinPanther13

    TwinPanther13 New Member

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    we are all talking about prologue and how useless it is, but to me an epilogue is extremly unneccessary
     
  3. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I think the epilogue is a very different animal. I can see a place for it to show long-reaching effects of choices made in the course of teh novel, effects that fall well outside the normal timeline or locale of the story itself. An epilogue may, for that matter, suggest a problem that could be addressed in a sequel - or simply left to the rreader's imagination.

    As they say at the end of the Conan installments, "but that is another story."
     
  4. Ore-Sama

    Ore-Sama New Member

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    I'd have to disagree with that. Popular Stories(including novels) often have MANY rabid fans who will cry foul when in a fanfic or an authorized expanding of the mythos not by the original author, when said item does something to contradict cannon, and often heated debates commence using anything from the most prominent to the most obscure tidbits and facts from that novel's world. Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, animes, even Pro Wrestling. I would say that in some cases the fans care MORE about those details then the original creator.
     
  5. Dolen

    Dolen New Member

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    I don't really know what to think of prologues. Some of them work really well, but then you come across the ones that drag out a load of unecessary information that you could either figure out for yourself, could've been slotted into the story line, or wasn't needed at all it really does plant a dislike for the things.
    Epilogues for me make you realise that no story really ever ends, and I guess prologues try to tell us that no story has a defined beginning, but quite a lot of the time the build up of the history of the book is a little over whelming and can put you off the whole novel.
     
  6. Kratos

    Kratos New Member

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    Don't forget Harry Potter! :D
     
  7. TwinPanther13

    TwinPanther13 New Member

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    and The The Lone Ranger. I was pissed when TBS did a remake movie and He got laid by some young girl. Lone Ranger was not like that the man was the epitome of good ol faishoned american values.

    Now Tanto could have got some that was ok. J/K
     
  8. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

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    Ore-Sama,

    First, you pulled the text
    from a larger paragraph, explaining that 90% of the backstory, history, background for a novel never actually graces the pages of that novel.

    And while I did point out about a deranged fan, you'll never convince me that, for example, someone loved and cared about Star Trek more than its creator, Gene Roddenberry. I met him briefly once, while attending a lecture/discussion he gave on Star Trek.

    While fan fiction folks may get vocal and all worked up about this particular point or that, it does not mean that they care more than the author or creator of a world/characters, etc...okay there is the example in Stephen King's Misery. And in the end, the fact of the matter is, that a fan fiction writer doesn't know the whole story, the entire background. That's the point of the 90%. They may think they do.

    That is not to say that fans do not pay close attention. For example, Stephen Brust, while writing one of his recent novels, couldn't recall an obscure bit of information that he believed was in one of his previous novels n the series, but he couldn't recall if he'd placed it there, and exactly how he stated it (I am going from memory from his blog on this...but the point I am making is general). So he put the question out on his blog to his readership, and he got his answer.

    Now did Mr. Brust care less about his world and characters and details than the very astute reader(s) who recalled (or took the time to look up) that minute fact? I would argue no.

    I can't think of anyone here who cares more about my writing (characters/world etc) than I do. Is there anyone here, especially who is considering writing a prologue--or not, who does have someone who cares more about their novel than they do?

    I guess it's possible.

    Terry
     
  9. Ore-Sama

    Ore-Sama New Member

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    There are more then a good number of fans who's devotion of a work could rival and even surpass the creator's. The kind who would drive the creator cray with constant questions and such.
     
  10. Lillias

    Lillias New Member

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    The only time a prologue annoys me is when it starts off with the story of the worlds creation myth and such. Things like that never interest me and I always skip that part. Its better to sprinkle things like that throughout the story and just get to the point.
     
  11. jazz_sue

    jazz_sue New Member

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    This was an interesting one for me, as my first submission to this site will probably be a prologue I wrote for my up-coming novel but which I ditched once the main body of the work got going (currently it's on 'hold' as I'm just too darn busy to give it my attention at the moment!). I'm going to heavily edit it into a short story as I think it reads well, even though it is no longer needed.

    My own experience is this, that from a writer's POV a prologue is an excellent way of starting something off, even if it later gets discarded. Although my novel idea was good, I was having difficulty typing that elusive first page; that is, until I approached it from the slightly different angle of kicking off with seemingly minor character who turns out to be important to the plot but who doesn't make an immediate appearance. This made it much easier to then begin chapter one with the person she had been talking to - her mother - and before I knew it I was away. Several months down the line, I realised the whole thing read much better without that prologue - in fact, it was now an impedance to the reader - but I was loathe to throw it out. That was until I realised that, with a few minor adjustments, it would make an excellent 'standalone' short story - something I've always had trouble with, despite the lucrative element involved!

    Thus, I think a prologue is a good option for a writer who might have a brilliant idea in his head but is finding it difficult to know where to start, as I did. But you must be prepared to let it go if it later starts to 'clang' against the rest of the script. You have to be ruthless to succeed - if you're not, then your publisher certainly will be, probably by throwing your opus in the bin before they realise what a brilliant writer you really are!
     
  12. Demief

    Demief New Member

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    I know prologues are overused but i have one right now which, after reading again, is ridiculously long. Too long. It's currently 3,926 words long. I could turn it into a chapter i suppose, but i am wanting to know how long a prologue should be? Thanks.
     
  13. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    there is no rule or even a rule of thumb for length of a prologue... i've seen some that are less than a page long and some that should just have been called a chapter...

    the point is to make sure a prologue is actually needed... and most aren't...
     
  14. Daedalus

    Daedalus Active Member

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    There are no set guidelines, but approximately four-thousand words seems a bit much. That's about fifteen ordinary novel pages, which is a lot. I'd say break it down to about half that. Maybe less. Or, just start it as chapter one. There are no rules that say you can't have chapter one ten years before chapter two.
     
  15. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Quoted for truthiness. :rolleyes:
     
  16. NaCl

    NaCl Contributor Contributor

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    ...which brings up another question...when IS a prologue beneficial?

    I have seen a lot of talk in this site about the nasty ole prologue, but I have yet to see any guidelines for when it is appropriate, or even essential, to include a prologue. Your thoughts?
     
  17. Daedalus

    Daedalus Active Member

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    I've heard all kinds of bad things being said about a prologue, but I don't know why. I've seen them used efficiently before. Clancy, in my opinion, is a master of the prologue. I often wonder about all these "rules" also. People say that prologues are rubbish. They're part of writing. Surely they're not there for nothing?
     
  18. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I guess my issue with the prologue is that it is too often poorly done and misused as a crutch. Too often it is a get-you-up-to-speed tool. Of course, this is not always true, but for the novice author it just seems like a way to explain what was not explained in the actual meat of the story in order to understand the story.

    Edit ~ Here's an example. In the movie The Dark Crystal, there is an opening prologue that explains what has happened in the eons before to the Mystics, to the Skeksis, to the Gelflings, and to the Dark Crystal itself. In a movie this is understandable. You have only so much time to lay the groundwork for the story, but in a written piece of work this would mean that there was all this incredible backstory worthy of its own novel or series of novels that was just smooshed into this prologue.
     
  19. ozymandias

    ozymandias New Member

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    I have the opposite problem-the prologue of the piece I'm currently writing is only 118 words! 3,926 words does seem quite long, but if it does the job and is essential for the story then you should keep it.

    To be honest, I'd rather not have a prologue but I can't work it into the 1st chapter as it's from a different POV to everything else.
     
  20. Scarecrow28

    Scarecrow28 New Member

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    It really just depends on the story and if the prologue is truly needed. Generally, prologues are fairly short as they are just intended to explain a few vital things to the reader so they know what's going on. It's also important that the prologue be fairly vague, especially if your story is based around some sort of mystery. You should hint towards the story, but don't reveal too much. This way, the reader is interested in the questions offered in the prologue and will read on. If you're trying to maintain this "vagueness" and provide the reader with some questions to answer in the following chapters, than it probably shouldn't be anymore than 5 or ten pages.

    My prologue to my novel is about six or seven pages. Most of the books I've seen have prologues ranging from a page to around eight on average. The longest I've seen was maybe 20 or 30, but that gets pretty uninteresting. So, basically, keep it as short as possible while still providing the necessary information. Hope this helps (and isn't too confusing!)
     
  21. Ice

    Ice New Member

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    When is a prologue useful? Well, I'm outlining a story in a post-apocalyptic secondary world, but for the plot's sake the first scene takes place smack in the middle of the cataclysmic event. I label it "Prologue" because it occurs centuries before the events of the rest of the storyline.

    I don't think prologues need to be a certain length, but I advise against seventy-page ones a la Robert Jordan.
     
  22. TwinPanther13

    TwinPanther13 New Member

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    Ok I think we have seen this before. To answer the question for it to really be called a prologue make it like some secret agent mission.

    Get in say what you have to say and get out.
     
  23. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Most frequently a prologue is used to establish backstory. When used in that way, you are almost certainly better off chopping off its head, burning the corpse, and scattering the ashes over the countryside.
     
  24. BillyxRansom

    BillyxRansom Active Member

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    One of few things here that not only didn't make me want to throw my computer out the window, but actually gave me quite a chuckle.

    What are some good examples of stories with prologues that serve a purpose, as opposed to just being "Chapter 1 [with a different name]"?
     
  25. NaCl

    NaCl Contributor Contributor

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    I am an unabashed fan of Andre Norton's science fiction and witch-based fantasy stories. I own every book she ever wrote.

    Andre Norton is one of the most prolific sci-fi and fantasy writers. She was the first woman to win the Gandalf Grand Master Award from the World Science Fiction Society and she won the Damon Knight Memorial Grand Master Award of the SFWA.

    She included a three paragraph prologue in "Key Out of Time" that sets the tone and setting for fast paced action beginning right away in the first chapter. Same thing in her book, Operation Time Search"...also a three paragraph prologue, interestingly comprised entirely of dialog. She uses the three-paragraph prologue in "The Stars are Ours", "Star Man's Son" and a five paragraph prologue in "Star Born". All of her Witch World series and time travel series also include prologues. I do not see her use of prologues as some kind of failure in the writing craft.

    Are they essential? No. Her stories would still be enjoyable without them, but there is NOTHING wrong with the prologues being included. As I said above, the prologues actually help to set the mood and simple foundation for her fast paced action. They also do an excellent job of providing a hint of what can be expected inside the story for anyone who is just browsing in a book store.
     

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